5: What takes me towards God

Episode 5: Colette reflects on the times she feels close to God, in nature and in quiet reflection but also a time when she felt strong anger and resentment towards God - so much that she stepped away from the Church for a time.

Colette shares insights into her role as the Co-ordinator of Westminster Diocese' Justice & Peace Commission - and much more.

Check out the work of Westminster Diocese Justice & Peace Commission.

Find out more about the Catholic Women's League

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Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You're listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together, on a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped to shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed, and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations.

It's really lovely to be with you today, Colette.

Lovely to be here.

I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Me too.

Let's start, Colette, by looking back maybe over your life and think about, can you look back and say where where you think you can see God working in your life? Are there things that come to mind?

Yeah. So, there really are. I'm very lucky that I grew up in a a church going family and found a faith for myself from a very early age. So, a relationship with God, and a religious faith is just part and parcel of who I am, how I grew up. I I grew up in a small town in Essex, we had a lovely parish with the same parish priest until I was about 15. So much the heart and soul of our community. Lots of parish parties and events. Particularly important to me, was going to adoration. We used to have Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament on Saturday mornings. My parents would have taken me initially. And then as I got older at 13, 14, 15, I used to go myself if they weren't going. Probably a bit of an unusual teenager, I know, but I used to love those those moments of quiet in church, just that, capacity to adore and to connect, in a very real way to Jesus was deeply a part part of my my formative years. And then I was in a family that was very, committed to the social life and the social justice life of the parish. My mother was a stalwart of the Catholic Women's League, and we used to do all sorts of fundraising events. That was her big thing. She'd be raising money for all sorts of good causes. So it would be jumble sales. It would be parish barbecues and fetes, and I was usually on the bookstore selling all sorts of things. And and that was very much the pattern of life for me growing up, kind of, these times of quiet devotion in the mornings and then these active events in the afternoon, along with a lot of parish parties and socials and celebrations of feast days and saints days.

A number of people that I've spoken to actually have said that those times of quiet, reflection have been really important to them for, you know, nourishing their life of faith. And so, is that something that you'd still find important today, Colette?

I would. I'm very lucky. I live in a community at the moment, which begins every day with a time of prayer. We have a chapel, and so I can pray for about half an hour of quiet every morning. We tend to read the scriptures and then just sit and reflect on it. And and that's very good for setting me up for the rest of the day. I find the days when I'm out early and rushing off to a meeting, and don't have it, I feel the lack. I feel that there's something something missing. And I'm probably not as good as entering into it and keeping the stillness as I was as a teenager. It's funny how the distractions of life kind of pile in on you, but, yeah, I do love it, and it is important to me. For me, also going out into nature has always been important. I lived out in the countryside. We had a lovely bluebell wood nearby, and I used to go out and just sit there, just be part of and connect to nature, just watch things grow, and I still do that quite a lot. I'm just sit down in beautiful places, in London parks or out further if I can get there, and just settle in and be.

That will resonate with lots of people. I think since we've been thinking about climate change more in the church, we've really recognized how valuable connecting with nature is for us spiritually as well as, you know, in a kind of general healthy fresh air way. You know, I think there is a there is a spiritual benefit, isn't there? And what about if we if you're able to reflect, are there times in your life you can look back and think, well, actually, it was really hard to see God working there or I felt a long way away from God during that time. Is there anything that comes to mind?

Yep. Certainly the older I get, I can feel that sometimes on a daily basis. There are hours that I'm pushed and pulled all over the place. But in terms of my life, there was a particular phase in my early thirties where I found, my faith extremely difficult. I'm a strong feminist, and I was really struggling with my place in the church. And that turned into quite a lot of anger and resentment against God and led to leaving the church for, nearly 2 years and and real real struggle at the time. But I'm really glad it happened. It's actually become quite a foundational time in my life where I kind of reassessed everything. I was reading a lot, particularly science at the time, learning a lot more about the size and scale of the universe, the age of the universe. And that, I think, helped me put into perspective the the few centuries, the few couple of millennium of the church, and and to try and see the whole of creation and God as our total creator holding us in love for all time and eternity. And the comings and goings and the ups and downs of the church shouldn't really affect that. And I kind of rebuilt my relationship with God from the from the ground up during that time. And although there are struggles sometimes daily, sometimes hourly, I've never kind of lost my faith or struggled with my faith to the same degree again.

It sounds like a kind of, growing up in your faith, you know, a kind of maturing of your understanding of God and our place in the universe and what our faith means. Like you say, it's felt useful in the end, although painful at the time maybe.

That's a good way of describing it. It was definitely a maturing process, becoming a mature adult Catholic with all my knowledge of the world as it is.

You mentioned reading science and things back in those days. Is there anything, are there any authors now that are nourishing for you in your faith?

Actually, it's pictures that I really liked at that time. I actually had the most beautiful book of, the Hubble Telescope pictures, the Deep Field, whole Deep Field, which was, amazingly important to me to sit and and look and as well as learn. But I'm actually very rooted in Ignatian spirituality, so the work of Saint Ignatius Loyola is deeply important to me in my spirituality.

Okay. And for people who don't know so much about Ignatian spirituality, can you give us a little summary, according to Colette, of what Ignatian spirituality is?

Well, I think it could be described in just one sentence, which is finding God in all things. That's really at the heart of it, is finding God in those biggest scales of the universe and in the smallest as well, the tiny creatures and the atoms. But also finding God in each other and in the events of our lives. Always trying to be alert to where God is in our lives, and God is always there to be found. I just find that wonderful, understanding of our spirituality. And it's both very simple. Of course, God is everywhere, a child can understand that. But it's also, helps address some some of the complexity. And sometimes we have to look. Sometimes we have to to search and work quite hard to see where god is. We have to test out our faith to see, whether something is taking us towards God or whether we're being distracted away from God. It's the many things and demands on our time in our in our world. And that really is the the work that lasts a lifetime that Ignatius has has given us some some writings and some literally spiritual exercises, ways to exercise our spirit, like we exercise our body in sport. We can exercise our spirit in Ignatian spirituality. I hope we get better at it as we get older or at least manage to integrate our lives better as as life happens to us.

Yes. Okay. That's really interesting. And I think there's something in Ignatian Spirituality that helps us in, for me, in the modern world where all sorts of things can be seen as valuable. You know, getting a good job and earning a good wage and doing well at school and I don't know, all kinds of things. And actually, I think the Ignatian approach helps us to focus on, you know, where is God in what I'm doing. And as you say, what is drawing me closer to God and what isn't. And I think that helps to just balance some of those competing priorities in our world in a spiritually healthy way, I suppose, is how I would think of it.

Yeah. No. That very much describes it. What takes me towards God, what takes me away.

Now the other thing that I know about you, Colette, from conversations we've had in the past, I know that working with young people is really important to you. I don't mean working with so much as, I'm not sure what the right words are. You'll probably be able to explain it better than me, but something about making sure that young people are part of the church. How would you describe your approach to being with young people in the church?

I would describe it as prioritising formation. I think we all need formation in our faith at all sorts of different stages. But we particularly need it in those kind of, transition years from being a child to being an adult, that time of being a young adult. And I was particularly lucky to spend a year with the Jesuits doing a volunteer year after university at 21, which was extremely formative, introducing me to this rhythm and routine of prayer practiced by people who practise Ignatian spirituality and also social justice and living in community and exploring every every aspect of my lifestyle. So having had that kind of grounding information and my own theology degree, which is what I actually did, that's something I've always wanted to make sure, is shared with the next generation. So I try and and build that into my work. I've been a 6th form college chaplain working directly with that age group. I've worked in parish, where it's particularly important to work with young people finishing confirmation. I would do a lot of just making sure they knew what roles were available, supporting them into those roles. I always had a little volunteering team in my office to help plan First Holy Communions and come into the classes and learn how to how to share their faith with even younger children. But the big thing is just trying to understand the even the concept of the young person and the young adult is changing as people live longer. We find our churches are often led or appear to be led by much older people, and it becomes quite hard to ever grow up. I'm 54, and I still get called a young person in the church, which, I have lived half a century. I don't really think of myself as a young person anymore. But when your parish priest or the religious sisters are in their seventies, eighties, I suppose it can seem like there's this huge gap of maturity and and and age and so on. And something I'm always very conscious of is that in biblical times, adult was, what we call young adults, were actual adults. Then Mary, probably, only a teenager of 15, 16. Jesus, 30, at the time of his ministry, and 33 at the time he died, and many of his disciples also very young at the time of their their calling. And so for me, that's always been about trusting younger adults with significant levels of responsibility, as soon as they're ready for it, but then making sure they have the formation and the linking and the learning to navigate our complex life with the many older people and perhaps more experienced people who are around them. Particularly for me, I've been able to do that in music because music is an area where, if you've got a a gift for it, you can you can exercise it and exercise your leadership. You can be picking hymns and and leading a congregation into worship from 16, 17, and I've often encouraged, young worship leaders to come forward and then try to support them in that, make sure they get sent on Diocesan training courses. I physically kind of remember putting a drum kit in the back of my car so that we could get a teenage drummer to go and help at an event at Southwark Cathedral. To have those opportunities and to make sure they're available for young people. And I always try to make sure I've got young adult roles, in the Justice and Peace office where I work now. I'm the Justice and Peace Coordinator for the Diocese of Westminster. So I try to make sure there are particular opportunities where I give that one-to-one time formation time. I think it's not just about a matter of putting events on. We have a wonderful youth service that can do that. But for me, it's something about the mentoring, accompanying, creating of those more quality time experiences that I think need to happen. And I think most young people need that somewhere in their lives. And if you're particularly active in church and want to get involved in church, then you need that mentoring from someone else who's also there. So I try and create it for those people where I can.

Colette, that's really interesting. I hope, I mean that will resonate with listeners who are working in a similar way, but I hope it will also help people reflect a little bit. I also, and I'm slightly older than you, I get thought of as someone still young in the church, which is, I mean, it's laughable, really. I often reflect on my grown-up sons, they are in their early thirties now. And in the workplace, you know, they have quite a lot of responsibility, but I think there is a danger of someone of their age in the church still being seen as not very experienced, you know, not a safe pair of hands, won't have enough life experience to take on a an important role. That is to do with, as you say, the, clergy, unfortunately, being so much older now and religious, that we've stretched out the time before you can start taking some responsibility if we're not careful. I think that's a really important thing to think about in how we organize our parishes and the opportunities people have. But I think you're right too that formation is important and it's really important not to thrust people into situations which can be quite complex. You know, some of the questions we think about in our faith lives are big questions. And there are people of all ages and all backgrounds that we're bringing together in times of prayer and in parish situations, that it is complex and and so mentoring and formation is really important. So, I think that you've got a really full understanding there that's been useful to hear about. Thank you.

My grandmother was a grandmother of 40, and so I often use that when I meet a 40 year old. I think, right, well, you know, you could be a grandparent. Certainly we don't think of grandparents as young adults. So we need to make sure that we're not making people young for longer than they need to be while recognising that if they are younger, then there's some responsibility there to to look after them and nurture them.

Yeah. Exactly. Is there something about the social justice work? You know, we've mentioned that a couple of times. Is there something about social justice work that also nourishes your faith? I think this is a really difficult area in today's church because there's so many areas of injustice to focus on that I, you know, I wonder how you manage all of that and whether it actually feels overwhelming rather than nourishing.

So after my, half an hour of prayer in the morning, the next thing I do when I start work is read news. So I know what's going on. And then there is - it's this constant diet of violence and warfare and the world's injustices, the world's problems. So we begin every day with, like, right. Okay. This is the context of today's work. And I'll read all the emails flooding in from all the different charities about how I can respond and how the people I work with can respond and then start sifting. And there are times, and there's certainly been times in this role, where it's just all got too much to the point of needing a week off work to just stop looking at the emails and looking at the amount of material, just so that I can gather and regroup and and get the internal resources to actually not be paralysed, but active. So for me, it's always in community-building. When we can do things together, we can tackle it. When you're on your own, you start to feel isolated and powerless. But as soon as I start networking or arranging a meeting or heading out on a rally, I just get that fresh energy all over again. Fortunately for me, a lot of my job is about that. It's about creating those opportunities, inviting other Catholics to come and take part with them, with me. Increasingly now working ecumenically and in interfaith ways. My role takes me into the Climate Coalition, which is a big national movement with a 120-something organisations. We are, in a few weeks' time, hosting a Christian service for a big Restore Nature Now rally, which is gonna take place in Hyde Park. And we're using a local Catholic church as a base for that. And I just love that, that we can offer that ecumenically, actually, to a load of of Christians that will be coming into London for that event, and then we can all walk and march together to ask the government to improve its protection of nature and work on the climate.

Just to step in there, I think you do work ecumenically then as much as possible. Tell us a bit more about that. What does ecumenical work look like where you are?

It's always good to find that other Christians have similarly been led by the gospel to tackle the same sort of issues that we do. I'm just thinking at the moment of situation in the Holy Land. We're extremely aware that this is a complex situation, which is a situation that is escalating into one of huge horror. We have the original injustice of the massacre of 1200 people on the 7th October last year, followed by the bombing of civilians, in all the different towns in in Gaza and the loss of all that infrastructure and life, including the life of children, noncombatants. I just found myself having conversations all over the place with people about how we respond, how do we how do we deal with that. And the people I found it easiest to talk to were the social justice people in other churches. And there's a group of us who actually formed Christians for Palestine and go out on the rallies. At the same time, I was realising we have to make sure we're talking to our Muslim and Jewish colleagues in London as well so that we are all keeping those channels of communication open, understanding each other's perspectives, fears, particularly fears of the Jewish community at this time.

Yes. Here in my hometown of Leicester, we had an interfaith event. There's a really good Interfaith Council here in Leicester, and, they arranged a, well, it was actually a prayer event together because of the situation in Gaza. And I think this is one of those times when actually working across faiths as well as just across Christian denominations, is really important and also really helpful in supporting each other. Because, again, I think this is a situation in which you could quickly become very, very overwhelmed and distressed by it. And so networking with lots of other people can really help.

Never been more important. I'm thinking of formation again.As a student, theology student, I was invited to a shared student event with Muslim, Christian, and Jewish students. And we all got on fabulously well. We were going to each others prayer services until somebody mentioned the Israel Palestine situation. And then the Muslim and Jewish participants got really animated, were shouting at each other, and the poor Christians were like, what is going on? And that was when I realised the importance of this particular issue to world justice, a keystone issue, and it affects not just the two peoples, but the three faiths. We're all involved in that. And ever since then, I've been very, very aware of the Holy Land. And it was a real privilege for the group that we we have in Westminster that we were able to invite Father Fadi Diab out to come and speak to us, who is a priest in Ramallah in the West Bank, an Anglican priest. We had an Anglican priest from London as well in the room, with a group of Catholics. So it was really good to have those conversations about what's going on in the West Bank between Christians and different denominations and hear from him. And he was so delighted that this group of Catholics was there open, ready, supportive, wanting to hear what he had to say. And we've kept the link. I'm in touch with him now. And I hope that one day we'd be able to make the return visit.

Yes. One day. One day. Yes. Okay. I'm hearing then in you, Colette, there's somebody who had a really good grounding in faith, you know, having grown up a cradle Catholic and in a family who were active in the church. And I just wanna give the Catholic Women's League a second big-up there because I met Catholic Women's League people myself more recently and, they are fantastic. They remain a high energy group of people, which, your mother sounds like she was

Still, she's still active at the age of 87.

Well, there you are. You see. And then, you know, you've had some really good formation along the way. I also studied theology, many years ago, and I found it, I don't know about you, but I found it incredibly hard at the time. But I'm so glad that I did because I do think that has really helped me in my faith later. You know, it's something I continue to draw on. I think that study for some people is really important, isn't it? And it gives you a kind of framework to attach new bits to as you go through life. And then I can see that you're somebody who is incredibly busy. Thank you for giving up some time today, you know, with many strands of work and and bringing many people together, I think people who do what you do, and are the person who connects everybody else, that is hard work. And I'm not surprised to hear that you sometimes need to take a break. I'm sure it is overwhelming. So I'm really grateful that you've been able to spend some time with us today. Thank you.

Oh, thank you, Theresa, for giving me the opportunity to to explore some of this with you. It's been a joy.

Thanks so much for joining me today on All Kinds of Catholic. A new episode of this podcast is released each week on Wednesdays. I do hope you'll tune in again.