10: They look like ordinary people

Episode 10: Lorraine shares her journey from standing outside churches not daring to go in, to becoming a Catholic - choosing a thoughtful confirmation name along the way-  and finally recognising that 'I was always invited. I was always supposed to be there.' 

We talk about the ups and downs of being welcomed at the door, too.

A new episode, a different conversation, every Wednesday!
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Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You're listening to All Kinds of Catholic, with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we are living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together. On a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped to shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed, and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations.

So thanks ever so much for joining me today, Lorraine. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. You're a guest who has not been a Catholic your whole life, and I know that the Mass has been important to you in your faith journey into the church and while you're here in in the church with us all. So I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how you first took some steps towards the church and where the Mass played a role in that.

Thanks for inviting me, Theresa. I had to really do a lot of ducking and diving when I first came to the church because, of course, for people who've been Catholics all their lives, all the rote learning about when to stand up and when to sit down and what to do is fairly natural. So all of that I had to learn. I spent a lot of time standing around a particular church thinking, I wonder if I could actually go in there. It was a church that was open all day in the in the city. I saw people going in and out, and I thought, well, they look like ordinary people, so maybe I could just go in. And a couple of times, I thought, I wish the door would just stay open a little bit so I can just put my head around. And one day, someone went in, and I just thought, I've just gotta go in and hope that nothing's going on in there when I get in there. Although I did have an idea that not many people had gone in. So I thought if, in some respects, that was worse because I was thinking, oh, if there's only 3 people, I'm definitely gonna have to talk to someone. And I walked in, and I was kind of immediately overwhelmed because it was a different sort of church to churches I'd been in previously, more recently. It felt huge, and I thought, well, I could go and stand somewhere for a while. And this is before even attempting a Mass. And I spent the next few weeks on and off skulking in this church, you know, just walking around to begin with. And then I sat down for a while and thought, well, if someone comes, I'll get up and meaningfully walk to the door so I don't have to talk to anyone. And then I started staying longer and longer, and I just found it such an amazing experience just to be sitting in such quiet, and that's when things started to change for me. So I'd sit longer and longer and realise that I could be there for a couple of hours and nobody would be there. You know, I looked towards the altar and looked towards the statues and thought, there's something compelling about this. I have to keep coming, and I have to work out how I can get to a service. I didn't even know they were called Mass.

So at that point, I mean, you're describing it in a really you know, you're painting a picture there, and I can imagine it. But it sounds like if somebody had approached you at that point, you would have possibly run away, and maybe you weren't ready for someone to try and talk to you at that point.

No. No. Not at all. Not at all. In fact, since I've become Catholic, the whole, I still find that difficult when I go to somewhere. I, you know, I travel around the country, and I'll always find the place go to Mass. I'm always a little bit tentative about when I arrive at the church because I'm expecting a very, you know, there's no disrespect to anybody who does welcome me. I can see it's got a really good, lot of thought behind it. But for me, personally, I find that a little bit, I still find that stressful, that someone is going to, I didn't mind being smiled at maybe or but - you know, I had one experience, I went to Walsingham, and I went to the church adjacent to the to the Pilgrim's Bureau. I thought I could be a bit incognito there because there were people from all over. There were about 3 people handing out hymn books, and this woman looked at me and smiled, and I thought, well, that's okay. I've got away with it.

I share some of your concerns there. And again, I know people are coming from a really good place wanting to do welcoming and that there is something really valuable, and I think there are people for whom it's really important for somebody to greet them when they arrive at church. But I sometimes find it's not what I'm looking for. I want to just go in quietly, and sometimes I want to read the notices that are pinned up and see if anything's changed. And sometimes I want to go straight into the church and just have a little moment in prayer. And sometimes I do want to greet people. You know, I might see people who I know have had some kind of really difficult week and that I want to say something to them before I go into the church, all sorts of things. But I sometimes feel I'm gonna have to run the gauntlet of the welcomers before I can do any of that. And, again, it's different again if I'm away with my husband and we're going to a church, and, actually, we're not gonna be there again. We don't necessarily want to go into a whole, oh, yes. We're on holiday from such and such, and, you know, this is what we're doing, and this is where we've been. We want to just go to Mass. Yeah. So, again, we can sort of approach the doors of the church and think, right, Okay, what are we gonna have to navigate here before we can be at Mass? It's a tricky one, isn't it?

I went to a place in Wales, and the congregation was about four people in this tiny little hut. Yes. It was excruciating in a way that as I was walking in thinking, there's only 3 or 4 people here. But I actually thought it was quite sweet. It was different again. You know, perhaps they were thinking, oh, somebody new. Now we're gonna have to be friendly.

And well, that's reminded me, on the other hand, when we went on holiday to Iceland, where, you know, lots of things about Iceland are so different from here that, you know, I felt quite sort of disconnected. And, actually, it was really lovely to be welcomed there into that church and for people to say, you know, we have a cup of coffee. This is where it is. Do come, and and, you know, this is where you put your coats and this is where you put your shoes because you take your icy shoes off in Iceland to go inside. And people were actually, you know, chatting to us. And on that occasion, you know, we were really glad, having felt very, uncomfortable. We were made to feel very comfortable. So poor welcomers can't win, I suppose. Okay. So I took us down a bit of a side alley there. We were talking about Masses, and so just tell us a bit more about - we've reached where you're skulking around, not really being as a whole Mass, and and how did you move forward from that?

Well, I I really knew that I had absolutely wanted to be in a Mass. And so one day, I arrived. I obviously was able to read the notice board, realise what time it was going to be, and I arrived a bit before. And I sort of walked around the outside of the church and watched everyone go in and thought, oh, they look like ordinary people, you know, they're just.. I heard a bell ring and I thought, well, that must be it. So I just opened the door a little bit because I couldn't go in with all the people in there and I didn't have the nerve to go in that time. But the next time, I went inside the door and sort of stood in this sort of porch area. And I did. I waited a while, and I watched people standing up and down. I said, so many people here. At this time of day, it was around 6 o'clock on a weekday, and I was thinking, I really want to be part of this. And then the thing that saved me was I saw a woman walk up to the altar where the priest was standing, in her coat, and she went and stood behind the lectern and started reading. And I thought, that woman's just come out from the congregation and she's reading.  She's an ordinary woman, and she's in her coat. It's not the priest doing the reading, and she's seems like she's part of the main - So I thought, oh, I can go in. And I went in and sat on the edge, and then that was it. I was able to go because I just thought, yeah, this is this is so accessible.

But I'm thinking that okay. So you're sitting in a pew in the church during Mass. Mhmm. I'm thinking that you probably weren't going up at Communion to receive a blessing for a little while or maybe you were.

No. Not at all. No. I sat at the back, and I noticed a lot of people like to sit at the back. And I remember thinking, are these all new people like me not knowing what to do? And then I noticed that culturally, a lot of people sit toward, they don't necessarily sit at the front. So that was good learning for me because perhaps I might have just stormed in and gone sat in the front row and, you know, just to get a good view or something. I did kneel, and I found that very liberating. I think the first time I kneeled, I found that very liberating. And in fact, then, when I used to go on my own to the church, it's what helped me really become quite a prayerful person. Yes. So the prayerfulness of that really spoke to me, that somehow there's something about being on your knees with a lot of people being on knees. It's a very humbling experience. For somebody who'd never experienced that before, I found it quite incredible.

Yeah. Because that is something in church, isn't it? People don't do that in other settings, in other contexts. So I suppose

No. That kind of, humility to be kneeling together. It became sort of a theme for me in terms of learning to surrender to this idea that I was going to become a Catholic because I was quite adamant that I didn't really have any faith before, but I knew there was there's something there all the time. And that sort of surrender, that sort of yeah, the kneeling and becoming part of something more than me.

Yeah. That's a better word. I would say humility, but I think surrender and also something reverential, about everybody kneeling together before the altar brings us into the presence of God so directly at Mass and in other situations where we kneel together in church too. Okay. And I don't know whether I'm jumping a long way ahead, but having reached that point, was there a point at which you felt you needed to speak to somebody about becoming a Catholic or being in church?

No. No. I didn't dare. I'm just enjoying it and I'm thinking, oh, this is it. This is it then. I'm here now. I mean, I had no idea you had to go through a process. Right. I didn't know. I thought that that was it. I knew that people were going up and taking communion. I knew about communion from, many years ago when I was a teenager, introduced very briefly to a church, and I knew what that was. I did see that some people would go I mean, I was very observant watching it, and I saw that some people were crossing their arms across their chest, but I didn't know what that was either. And it was coming around to Easter, and I thought, I know what I'll do. I'll go to a Catholic country at Easter, and I'll try it out where nobody knows me. This sounds bizarre, but I did. I went to Italy, and I realised there was a pattern to what was happening. And I, and so I looked it up, I realised that everything had been happening in this church in England was also happening in Italy. I imagine Catholics, cradle Catholics, take this for granted that you would know what to do.

Oh, it's really interesting to hear, you know, what you observed as somebody who has very little idea of the culture and what the steps looked like to you.

When I came back, I started looking through the hymn book, and I realized there was an Order of Mass. You know, then it all started to make sense. And I started reading that and realising that when I think about it now, I'm glad no-one asked me anything because I would have, it'd be very bizarre.

Oh, so real experiential learning, isn't it?

It really is. And the other thing is when I cross myself, when I make the Sign of the Cross. Once I did go to get some teaching as it were, some instruction, I realised that I had already habitually learned to cross myself the wrong way. I've had some adventures with all of this. You know, I was in Italy in Bologna. As I said, I went to at Easter to learn the ropes. I went to the church because the church doors are open. It's wonderful. When you walk in, and I thought, oh, there's a Mass going on. I'll go there. I mean, it was before Easter. I now know it was Palm Sunday. And I sat there, and I thought this must be the, I'm at the beginning. I know I'm in the Mass, and sat there. And at one point, I realised I was all alone in the church. And everyone had gone up for Communion, but they'd gone around the back of the altar. And I hadn't at that stage, I wasn't going up for Communion. They'd all gone, and they'd gone to the back of the altar. And then I realised that they hadn't come back. And I thought, oh, well, maybe in this this church, when they've had their communion, they leave. I'm just, you know, thinking, well, this is a lovely place. I'll stay there. The Mass is over. There's a commotion behind me, and they, and it was after some while, and they all came parading in. I realised there'd been a procession, and, of course, quite some considerable time later, maybe a whole Easter later, did I work out that that was the Palm Sunday processions.

Yeah. And you stayed in the church and missed it.

I stayed in the church and missed it, and it was a beautiful day, and I imagine it was a beautiful procession.

Yeah. And so, finally, you must have spoken to someone. Right? Because you have become a Catholic through official channels in due course.

I am an official Catholic. Yeah.

So what what happened?

Well, okay. So I started going to Masses. I thought, I'm gonna have to talk to somebody about this. I saw an advert about, it was something to do with Pope Francis, and it was to do with something to do with the climate. And I thought, well, there's something that, if someone talks to me, I can have a conversation. I can talk about climate stuff. I've had quite a political upbringing, as it were, so I thought, well, I'll meet them on my terms. And it was in a church hall, and I went to the event. They were obviously doing some work around climate and about lots of things, about poverty. Anyway, I started talking to people on, about those things, and they were really welcoming. And I felt so good because I realised that I could get involved with learning about the church on those terms. I can just say I'd read about it. But as it happens, I did talk to someone. She said, what brings you here? And I said, oh, all of this, you know, I'm very interested. And she said, oh, yes. Okay. Anything else? And I thought, well, there's my invitation. I have to finally say, yes. I've been trying to get my head around how it all works. Can you help me? And she said, well, yeah. I can. She said, we'll have to ask the priest. And I was saying, no. No. No. No. There's no need to ask the priest. Don't let's do that. But she was great with me, and we agreed to go for a walk, then I realised there was a process, and that it was perfectly normal for non-Catholics to find out more and to actually become involved in the Mass. Because sitting at the back of a church, rising and falling on your knees is one thing, but to actually understand and to know why you're there and what it is that you're participating in and what it is that's happening, it's just amazing. Got my old goosebumps going there. That's why I like to quietly go into the church and spend some time with God. That's my preferred way of doing it because I just value it so much. I know I've been joking about it a little bit, but those things really happened. All of that that might be obvious to a cradle Catholic, completely over my head, so much so that someone said to me when I was received into the church, now the priest said, well, you'll need a sponsor. And I said, no, no, no, no. I can pay. It's fine. And I had no idea what that meant. I don't know how, I don't know how I could have been so uneducated and unknowing about it really. But I suppose if you, if you've not been brought up with a faith or to understand what faith is

There's something amazing about, you know, we haven't used these words, but you're feeling called somehow to be there in the church without even knowing what the church is and what it was to be at Mass, you still felt drawn to be there. That's God calling you, isn't it?

I think so because I was quite resistant. I didn't really know why I was there. I've since read scriptures. I can't remember if it's John where he talks about the knocking at the door, and that spoke to me. God carried on knocking when I wasn't really listening for the door being knocked.

And how do you feel at Mass now? Do you feel a sense of belonging and properly being a Catholic? I wonder if you might still feel a little bit of impostor syndrome from time to time as we all do, or whether you actually feel like, I'm here now and I'm part of the church.

It's a good question. Internally, I feel part of a huge family, and it's really reassuring. I find that humbling. I remember when I learned that the reading on the day is the same reading that the whole of the world listens to. Blew my mind. So, yeah, I really do feel I belong to something enormous. And I have on and off relationships with physically walking into Mass. I go to Mass on a Saturday evening, and I don't quite know how I settled on that, but I did. There's a point on a Saturday afternoon where I think, oh, I'll go on a Sunday morning. And I can't wait. My life's orientated towards at least once a week, zoning out and zoning in at the same times. Yeah. I sometimes pinch myself and think, how did I get here? And I mean, just talking with you, Theresa, it was quite a haphazard way, really. Why me? How, you know, how lucky was I? I was always invited. I was always supposed to be there.

And just because I think it might be interesting for people, I'm wondering what name you took for your confirmation and what thought might have gone into that as somebody who was an adult, not even knowing what sponsors were.

I spent about a year in with instruction, and I was encouraged to read about the saints. The whole thing about saints, I didn't really understand how deeply human saints are. That's been such a massive learning for me. And, of course, there's rather a lot of them called Teresa or Therese, or Teresa of Avila, doctor of the church, the Little Flower, Therese of Lisieux. And also I was quite moved by Mother Teresa. I'd previously, I don't know. I'd had different views about Mother Teresa as a secular person, but I read a lot about her and I read around her and her work. Her struggles actually with her own faith, that became quite pertinent for me. Anyway, so I chose Teresa, but I also have a great interest in Mary Magdalene, thinking about how Jesus really needed his disciples and how there were so many women in that group as well supporting him and how good he was around women, and I wanted to respect her. So I chose two names. I chose Teresa Magdalene.

Ah, that is really interesting. I feel we're kind of working towards the end now, Lorraine, but it's reminded me that you had an amazing experience when Saint Teresa of Calcutta, she is now, was canonized. Just tell us about that, which must be some kind of high point in your life as a Catholic.

I heard about that, and I thought, I know how to do Italy and Catholicism in Italy. I'm gonna go. And it was amazing. I stayed in a convent with some wonderful sisters, a whole experience on its own. Yeah. I went to the Vatican, and it was so exciting and so interesting, and I met people from all over the world. All the Sisters of Charity were there. Obviously, I'd become a bit of a follower then of Pope Francis. And suddenly, there was a lot of fuss behind me. And as I turned around, I could see Pope Francis and, you know, like, the film Men in Black, you know, these guys going on with things on their lapels and dark shades, and I was thinking, this looks amazing. And, literally, he passed by me so close that he might as well have put his hand on me. This is a high point. I've been here to honour this woman who because a lot of my interest is justice and peace and how to, and how do that manifest in the real world?

Yeah.

It was great. I was able to see her honoured for that. It was in the Jubilee Year of Mercy, and I, participated in a little pilgrimage for that. The little pilgrimage was just a short walk actually into, following a cross, carrying a cross with 3 or 4 other people, and you could just do it in small groups. And I walked with them, and we walked up through the main doors that aren't normally open at St. Peter's. That was also very humbling because I hadn't been in there before, and it's enormous. I mean, there are about 4 or 5 places you can have Mass, and I made a confession there as well.

You know, it's wonderful that you've been able to be close to Pope Francis as well and be in Rome at an important time. God has been very good.

Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Lorraine. It's been really lovely speaking with you today.

Thank you.

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic This Time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow All Kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms to be sure of not missing an episode.

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