12: It's Just So Beautiful

Episode 12: Elena shares her journey to finding a new Catholic community after leaving home for university.
 
We talk about the Latin Mass and why she and other young Catholics can be drawn to it.

Elena describes honestly the things she struggles with - experiences familiar to many.

A new episode, a different conversation, every Wednesday!
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Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You're listening to All Kinds of Catholic, with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together, on a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped shape this podcast.
I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations.

It's really lovely to be here with you Elena, on the pod today. Thanks so much for joining.

Thank you for having me, Theresa.

Elena is the chair of Loughborough University's Student Catholic Society. And, you've done some podcasting work before, Elena, so you're an old hand.

Yes. I have. I've done quite a bit of broadcasting for Radio Maria. I've spoken live to them quite a few times, but I've also done quite a bit of article writing and journalism throughout my time as an undergrad at Loughborough.

That's a really good grounding then. We'll all look and see how your life pans out in the future, how you build on those foundations. Tell us a little bit then about your life so far. Were you baptised as a Catholic as a baby, or have you become a Catholic later?

No. So, my parents are Catholic. My family is Catholic. My father is from Italy. He's from Milan. So, you know, obviously, long generation of big Catholic family. My mother is actually a convert from Anglicanism after she met my father. So I was actually baptised in Milan, me and my sister when we were quite young. They call it a double dunking. We went over together, and me and my sister got baptised quite young.

Okay. Double dunking. I love it. So you've grown up in in a family where Catholicism is understood and shared?

Absolutely. I mean, all of my siblings, we've all been to Catholic primary, Catholic secondary. We've all done our First Communion in the same church. This is the same parish priest who's in all of our Holy Communions. And, yeah, just wonderful memories of going to, you know, a Christmas or Easter, all 6 of us going together.

A number of guests on the podcast have talked about the parish community being really important to them, and I can kinda hear that in what you're saying. What was it like then moving to university and needing to find a Catholic community from scratch on your own?

It was not easy because I joined university just out of the pandemic, so it was 2021 when I was 18, and there was not a Catholic society. It didn't exist at Loughborough either  it fell away because of COVID and there just wasn't enough interest. The Christian Union, the Protestant Society on campus, they kind of took over. So there wasn't that presence for me in my 1st year at Loughborough. It impacts your faith more than you think. I fell away from the church for quite a while. You know, Catholic was part of my identity, but did I really go to mass every Sunday? No. You know, I had a typical Freshers experience. Every student has a, you know, Freshers experience, but it's a lot more easy to get kind of pulled into that when you don't have a Catholic presence when you're away from home. So I was very, very lucky that after my 1st year and halfway through my 2nd year, a friend of mine, he set up what we now have as the Catholic society. He was the kind of first chair of it. You know, I couldn't be more grateful. You know, that's when I started attending the church in Loughborough, which is my preferred parish now. You know, incredible friends, incredible memories from that. So I'm very grateful that the Cathsoc came to fruition when I was there.

Okay. That's great. And about how many members are there now in Cathsoc in Loughborough?

So, officially, we have a good around a 100, I'd say. Active participants, around 20. But, you know, it's those 20 people that really make it, and I feel I've got lifelong friendships and connections with. And, you know, it only takes that small presence, that small number to, you know, help students who are either thinking about it or want to come back to the faith.

No. I think that's a great number. I'm amazed when there was no Catholic society for a while there. You know, that's wonderful. That's grown quickly, hasn't it? That's really encouraging.

It absolutely has.

What kind of things do you do with the Catholic society then that supports each other and builds those friendships?

On, Wednesdays for example, we all gather for a rosary. We all have rosary on a Wednesday evening, and that's just a really, you know, nice quiet time for prayer and devotion and reflection. We also, it's important in a society to have kind of social events, so we will kind of go to the local pub, you know, meet up, meet at the weekends. If we can and we are at uni, we all do attend Mass together. You know, have a few pews where the students all sit. So, you know, we make sure it's important for us to all attend Mass, on Sunday. And then quite often, we enjoy engaging a lot of theological debates and discussions either with people of other faiths from the other societies. A lot of other faith societies on campus are quite interested in having debates and discussions with us. So, you know, we love to have those kind of theological dialogues.

OK. Well, that sounds really busy. Give us a flavour then of some of those theological debates. I think people might be interested to hear the kind of things that you discuss with people from other faith backgrounds.

We've done 1 or 2 with the Islamic Society on campus. That's always quite interesting. The main one we kind of like to have a bit of a tussle with, again, is the Christian Union, the Protestant society. I always find those the most engaging debates. And, I mean, to be fair, we have got quite a few people interested in either Cathsoc or in Catholicism in general from the Christian Union. You know, a lot of them have many, many myths about the Catholic Church. It's insane how misinformed some people can be. So it's also really important that we go to them and try to dispel these unfounded beliefs they have about the Catholic Church. We've engaged quite a bit with the Mormons in Loughborough, which I always find fascinating. They're on, you know, the other end of the theological spectrum to the Catholic church, so I just find it so fascinating to engage with, members of the Mormon church.

And are you able to do that in a friendly way? Are you able to have good relationships while disagreeing, obviously, about some of those issues?

Yes. I mean, majority of the people, are lovely, very understanding, you know, even if some people are never gonna want to come to the Catholic Church. And so it's a matter of we'll agree to disagree at this point. I think as Catholics, we'll always face hostility. I think we've tried to show people the truth. We've tried to back up our claims with scripture and history, early church fathers. Some people are just not amicable to it. But on the whole, yes. Yes. A lot of people have been amicable. I've made quite a few friends from the CU, you know, even though they don't, we don't, agree theologically. They're all still lovely people.

That's good to hear. I think some listeners might be alarmed at the thought of having to back up what you're saying with scripture, the early church fathers. You know, it can be daunting. So it's very impressive that you're doing that. You mentioned before we started recording that you did do A-level RE, and, I guess some of that is useful background for you now.

Absolutely. I absolutely fell in love with theology during my A-levels. I obviously did RE for GCSE as you have to do at Catholic school, I loved it. I loved it then, continued it for A level as theology. And, again, just fell in love with the polemics and the apologists, and I got to study a bit of philosophy at the time. So, you know, a bit of Kierkegaard and Kant, but the pandemic came into full force. So I was actually kind of afforded more time to study theology and philosophy, you know, being locked up in my room. That's kinda just where that passion kinda came from. I thank my RE teachers from A-level ever so much for that. They absolutely ignited that spark in me.

Good. Any RE teachers listening would love to hear that. Are there people, amongst the texts that you've read that really you connect with, that really speak to you?

The Venerable Fulton Sheen. He's a fantastic theologian, but just the way that he kind of conveys himself and conveys the arguments, a lovely, wonderful man. Fantastic for anyone trying to research for the 1960s, Vatican 2, kind of the whole thing. He's a fantastic person to look into. For modern day, I think if people are looking into the Catholic church, Father Mike Schmitz, lovely guy. He's done the Catechism in a Year for anyone who's interested; Bible in a Year. And just some really useful little tidbits for anyone who's, you know, either struggling with their faith or wanting to come to the faith. There's another one who I like to watch, Pints with Aquinas, I wouldn't say he's so much a theologian as he is an interviewer or has a great variety of people on his show.

Okay. Well, that's some good info for people. Just give us a flavour of your personal faith, Elena. What are the things that sustain you in your personal faith? Are there some bible texts that speak to you or some prayers that you return to or practices that that you value?

For me, the main prayer I'd say I return to is always the rosary. I think it's such a powerful prayer. I think it's such a beautiful prayer. You know, I love praying the rosary, and I try my best to pray it every night. And I do also feel that the Blessed Mother, the Blessed Virgin, has helped me kind of come to Christ and sustain my faith a bit more. So when I was confirmed in the Catholic church, I chose the name Maria. And I do 100% feel that she has brought me closer to Christ, and I feel, you know, she prays for me every day. So that that devotion and that relationship with the Mother of Christ, which is also our mother, has definitely been a great comfort to me.

So lots of people on the pod actually have mentioned the rosary, I must say. I might just dig into this a little bit, if that's alright. And just think about when you're praying the rosary, are you meditating on the mysteries of the rosary, or are you thinking your own reflective, prayerful thoughts? What works for you, or is it different each time?

It is different each time, I'd say, and it's just really how I kinda feel, at the end of that day. If, you know, there's something that I really feel like I need to talk to God about or something that's been weighing down on me, I will use that when I'm praying the rosary. If, you know, I've had quite a quiet calm day, there's not much I need to worry about, do my Thanksgiving, but I would probably, meditate more on the mysteries on those kind of days.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's interesting for people to hear. I'm thinking about you, Elena, in your family. You mentioned having some siblings. How do you stay in touch with them, and do you have a shared understanding of your faith with your siblings as you're all growing up?

I mean, I absolutely hope it's something that my siblings will continue to grow in and something that we can share. Being Catholic is still a part of their identities, but they're all younger than I am. So it's not as clear cut for them. That is still a bit confusing for them. They obviously haven't had the same kind of research in theology and so on that I have because, again, they are still quite young. But, you know, we've all, had our Communion. We've all been baptised. Every night, I pray that when, you know, they can be more fully conformed to the church and to Christ. It's everyone's own individual journey. And, you know, I just hope that they can grow even more in their faith.

Okay. And now you're the Chair of the students' Catholic Society. So, obviously, you've got some responsibilities there. So what does that look like? How much time does that take for you?

So, obviously, the academic time has ended for summer now. My job for CathSoc Chair is not finished during the summer. I'm currently in the process of planning Freshers' Week. That's kind of the biggest week for all the societies. So, you know, I'm trying to book events and book pubs and book function rooms. It can be busy, but it's absolutely worth it in the end when you see how many people, how big the society is growing, how many people have come to the society. We've had quite a few converts to the church as well this year who have said, I came to CathSoc not knowing if I wanted to join the church or not. It was through Cathsoc that I then, you know, became converted. So I'm currently in the process, for example, of trying to get a retreat sorted with the Humanum project in the USA. That's kind of taken up most of my time, but absolutely looking forward to it.

Sounds really exciting. So I'm just thinking anyone, any students out there coming to Loughborough University for the first time in the new academic year can look forward to connecting with the Catholic society. They know that there's some great things planned for them to be part of. That's wonderful. And to hear of people coming to the faith through the work of the society is really amazing.

It really warms my heart. Absolutely. So for example, one of my friends, he starts doing his own research, came to CathSoc thinking maybe this is something I want, maybe it's not. I'm not too sure. But then meeting CathSoc and meeting the members and talking to us, he decided it was right for him, and he was then confirmed into the church in May. Another friend of mine, so she came to the Catholic Society saying, you know, this is my grandmother's faith. I'm more interested in learning about it. And she's now going through the process of RCIA. So it's a beautiful thing to see. It is.

I imagine the parish that the students join are delighted to have some, a sizable group, of young people coming to Mass and positive about the faith.

Yeah. Father says quite rightly how happy he is to see all the students coming along and bringing their friends.

And so I see you doing all this good work and continuing to study and learn about the faith yourself in your own time. I wonder if you can see into the future what you might be doing and how you might build on these foundations. Have you got any thoughts or dreams around that?

Well, I mean, I wish I could see that far. I mean, everything is still so confusing at 21 still. Short term future: I have been excited for a Masters in International Security, so I've always been interested in diplomacy. So if I can do some sort of work in diplomacy, you know, using my faith in that sort of sphere, that'd be fantastic. But I am also discerning at the minute whether maybe Catholic chaplaincy is for me. So during the summer, I spent a few weeks volunteering at the Nottingham Diocese Catholic Youth Services. And so I got to work with young kids from schools all over the diocese, to help in the youth formation in the faith. And it was such a heart-warming experience, and seeing them kind of come into themselves and ask you know, just asking questions about the faith that just really makes your heart grow. So I am kind of discerning if maybe something along those lines, chaplaincy work, RE teacher maybe, if that's for me. But, we'll have to see.

There's lots of possibilities there for you, and that's really encouraging. You mentioned that you go to Mass on Sundays, and the parish is very important to you locally now. But I wonder what kind of Mass speaks to you. Do you have things that, you know, you're really delighted if there's going to be this happening at Mass or this hymn or this way of doing Mass. What kind of things really nourish your faith?

As you've seen, a lot of kind of younger Catholics are enjoying the more traditional forms of Mass, the Latin Mass. You know, even though it's confusing for some, I just find so much beauty in the Latin Mass. On the Sunday, we do have a New Order Mass, but a lot of it is in Latin. So, you know, when the Gloria is in Latin, I just love it. I love sung Mass. Our Father Paul, he actually has a background in music, so obviously he loves to sing. So we have our Novus Ordo almost completely sung, and it's just so beautiful. So, for example, like, my favourite part of the Mass is the doxology. When he sings the doxology, it's almost for me, it's like the high point of the Mass. It's just so beautiful. It's what I look forward to for every Sunday.

That's really interesting to hear because I've somehow fallen between 2 groups in in my life because I'm too young to have experienced the Latin Mass as a child and as a young adult and until now. So I find the Latin Mass very confusing, and it doesn't resonate for me in the way that I know it does for people who are that bit older than me, for whom, you know, it takes them back to very special time in their lives when they were going to Mass with their families and the Mass was in Latin. And I can see this group of younger people, younger than me, for whom the Latin Mass has become important again. And I do struggle to see what it is you're seeing or to feel what it is you're feeling. It's a very interesting dynamic that I would not have foreseen. And I know it's right that there are many people who are finding the Latin Mass really resonates for them. And I think it is around what you're saying about the beauty of it.

Yeah. I find it so transcendental with the cantoring and the hymns. And I think you're right. I think if I went to Latin Mass when I was a child, it would confuse me so much. I'd probably find it boring. But as you understand what part of the Mass is what and what bits of the Latin mean what, it starts to make more sense. And to know that it's the same Mass that has been performed for, you know, almost 2000 years, roughly the kind of the same Mass, it's just, it's mind-blowing.

I notice in my own parish community and other places where I've been at Mass where there's been some Latin singing, that people who've come from another country, who know that Mass, they're able to participate in a way that they maybe haven't been if their English isn't so strong. There is something unifying about that, I have to say, when I've been at Mass and heard people from all nations able to join in the same singing, which then I can't join in because I don't - there's a lot to reflect on there for people listening. But you do think then it helps to understand what the Latin is saying and where it is in the Mass?

I would say for me, what helped me most, was knowing which bits of the Mass was what. I wouldn't recommend new Catholics, new converts to go straight to the Latin Mass because you will be confused. You probably think, what on earth is going on, and why isn't the priest looking at me? Why is he looking away from me? So I think kind of get to grips with the Novus Ordo Mass because for me, personally, you kind of know which bit is the Eucharistic bit, you know, which bit's the collect, you know, which bit is the Confessional. It kinda makes sense. It kinda translates quite well which bit, you can tell which bits are which even though the priest isn't looking at you and it's in Latin. Most parishes will have a little book or a little missal which has the Latin and the English. So even if it is, like, your first time, you're not too sure. You will have a thing to follow along. Also the Latin, you should pick up fairly quickly. Even though my Latin is non existent, you kind of pick it up quite quickly, I think.

Okay. Thank you. And I wonder if singing helps actually embed it a bit.

I think so. You know, once you kind of understand or have a bit of understanding of perhaps the Gloria in Latin. Even, you know, the Kyrie Eleison, you sort of know, well, Kyrie is Lord, Christe, Christ. It's like a bit of a puzzle, I find, and it kind of fits together, begin to translate this bit, which bit means which, and then it kinda makes sense. It's something I can't describe, something that you have to find out for yourself, for the listeners. I promise you, like a puzzle, it will fall in together.

Okay. Thank you. Now I sometimes say to people, is there a Mass you can point to that you're really gonna look back for the rest of your life and think, you know, I'm so glad I was there. That was just amazing.

Oh, that's a fantastic question. I mean, I have to say my Confirmation Mass, the Mass where I did my Confirmation. Unfortunately, because of COVID, I couldn't do my Confirmation as early as I'd like. By the time I was ready to do my Confirmation, obviously, the churches were all closed, couldn't do RCIA. So it was actually quite recently I was able to have my sacrament, and that has absolutely got to be, again, the most meaningful. So grateful that I was able to do it. So grateful that my family were there. My boyfriend was there. My grandparents were there. Even though my grandparents from my mother's side aren't Catholic, I guess they were raised Anglican technically, you know, they still came. My grandmother said that she loved the choir. That's what she was there for. I absolutely will never forget that, and I took on the name Maria, my confirmation name.

Okay. Thank you. Well, that's really lovely. Going back to, you mentioned one of the things you're thinking about is maybe going into diplomatic work. I know the Vatican has quite a lot of diplomatic work that is done by staff. So are you able to put into words what you think the church might offer the world or what you as a practicing Catholic might offer the world?
You know, what is it that we can contribute to making a better world?

I mean, the Catholic church has been yeah. I feel, I'm sure you'd agree. I think all Catholics would agree, has been, one of the absolute beacons for society and for humanity. It's in the church that we find, you know, true humanitarian rights, true, you know, civil rights for women, rights for the unborn. All these things are protected by the church, and they are, pushed by the church. For example, I think the church has so much to offer in terms of even for example, you know, women's rights. The rising femicide in South America particularly is very concerning, and the Pope spoken out a lot as well. But the church has done a lot of work to try and curb this violence against women in Southern American countries because, you know, it's only through the Catholic church that we can all find true peace and true human rights. I would say the truth, that is what the church can offer diplomatically and to societies, the absolute truth and freedom for all.

Okay. Now just because you've mentioned there about women's rights in South America, rightly, and you've spoken well about that. What's your thoughts as a young woman, shortly to have some very good qualifications behind you, on the role of women in the church, in the hierarchy of the church, where women, you know, famously, in the Catholic church, unlike other Christian churches, cannot have these roles of clerical responsibility, certainly.

I think it's important to know that women and men, while we are equal, we are absolutely equal, in what we can give. And in the eyes of the Lord. I partly don't have a problem with women kind of not being able to be priests because theologically, I believe it's incorrect. Historically, it's incorrect. Women's ordination has been a fairly new thing in the world of Christendom. So I don't believe it's theologically based. It's not historically based.

You know, I do say at the beginning of the podcast that there may be things that are challenging, and I think some people will find that challenging, and some people will find that affirming. So I do want to make sure that all kinds of Catholic people can say what they think. So thank you for sharing that because I know you'll be aware in sharing it that some people will find that too radical for them. Yeah. In a strangely radical, but seeming to go backwards for some people.

Yeah.

But I know that there are lots of people also who would be able to get behind that absolutely. So it good to challenge ourselves and to hear all voices. So you mentioned you've debated issues with people from other faiths and other Christian denominations. Are there things that actually you do find a bit challenging that you struggle with?

I mean, faith is never linear. We all kind of have ups and downs, but God says, my strength is not in your strength. My strength is in your weakness. Every one of us has faced personal challenges, you know, even just kind of going through an undergraduate -  writing a dissertation, you just think, why? Or, you know, is this ever gonna be over? Or I mean, I face you know, when you're applying for graduate jobs, you face a lot of rejection. I think that actually, I tell you that that's been the main thing for me, actually. I was desperately searching for graduate jobs. There was a graduate internship role working for the Holy See, which I didn't get, and I fell into quite a bit of despair. It was kind of, does God not want this for me? What you know, has he got anything lined up for me? Does he not care about my fears? Stuff like that. And it was very, very easy to fall into despair. And, you know, I kind of had a week or two of kind of moping around. But then, you know, no. I went to confession, and it's so simple, but, you know, Father Paul told me. He said, obviously, God knows better. And it's so simple, but I was like, yeah. He does know better. God does know better. He knows there's a right time. You know, there's been things before where I've faced rejection, but it's turned out it was the right decision. So I'm, you know, just kind of trying to hold on to that. But it is kind of those moments where you don't, I don't, get what I want. And then I kind of blame God, and it's sort of like, that's not really the right way to do it. But I think we've all kind of had experience with that.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think that will resonate with everybody. Yes. Especially when, I think the thing about jobs is, you know, to put in a good application, you imagine yourself into that role, don't you? And it feels like it's absolutely the right thing, and you can see all the ways in which it's the right thing. And then and then when you don't get it, it's very hard. Absolutely. You've captured that very well.

Yes.

And I'm sure that people listening also will have had the experience that you're describing of later looking back and thinking, actually, that wasn't the right thing for me at that time. I can see now this is what God was calling me to. So thank you for sharing that so honestly. It's been really interesting talking to you today, Eleanor. It really has. And I have been a bit challenged, and that's the good thing. And I think we've got a picture of your life and the things that you believe in and the depth of your faith, which is wonderful to find in a younger person, and also that you have some study to back up what you're saying and that you know you've really thought about that and are prepared to talk to people and debate some of these difficult issues with people. That's wonderful. But you've also been able to be really honest about how you feel about life's ups and downs on your faith journey. So that's going to be a really good listen for people listening to the pod. So thank you very much for sharing all of that with us.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you.

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