13: I definitely wasn't going to church

Episode 13: Neil talks about his sense of being a missionary in his diocesan work. 
He shares honestly the things that are high points, like being with young people, and some of the low points, on his own faith journey.  

We talk about Catholic voices on social media too.

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Find the transcript: https://kindsofcatholic.buzzsprout.com

Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You're listening to All Kinds of Catholic, with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together, on a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations. 

Thanks ever so much for joining me today, Neil. It's gonna be really interesting to have this conversation because you're somebody who's in a particular role in the church that I think people will be interested to hear about. 

Great.

Just to start then, Neil, have you been a Catholic your whole life or is it something you've come to later? 

Yeah. A Catholic my whole life. Although I say that I was baptised quite late. I was baptised at 3 years old, although I was taken to church. My dad at that point, wasn't Catholic, and I believe there was some family politics as to why the eldest grandchild, wouldn't be baptized straight away. I think eventually, courage took over my parents.

 And then if I just fast forward right up to more recently, I met you because you're the Diocesan Comms Officer in Northampton. And how did you work into that role? What led to you becoming that person?

So the short answer is the Lord just keeps opening doors, and I'm just asked to say yes, really. And so that's the short answer. The long answer is, so my background is in youth ministry. So 25 years ago, I started in full time youth ministry, which ended up with me being the Director of Youth Ministry for the Diocese of Northampton. It would be fair to say that's where my heart is really with young people. You know, they're the spirit of the church in many ways, and so I'm still drawn to them through my ministry. In 2017, Bishop Peter Doyle was Bishop of Northampton at the time, lovely man. He called me into his office and said, you know, would you mind taking on a bit of extra responsibility? I said, okay, you know, the answer's yes. Now let's see what it is. And he said, communications. And at that point, I had no idea what that was really. And, you know, and I'd heard the words but in the sense of the organisation of the church and indeed the mission of the church, I didn't really know. So I’ve kind of been on a journey of discovery since then. In 2021, Bishop David Oakley, so Bishop David was ordained in 2020 as the Bishop of Northampton. And we got on very well, and I spent a lot of time with him during the lockdowns because I was one of the people that was going into work. And he said, how do you feel about going into Comms full time? And I kinda didn't want to really, but over a period of time, he said, well, look, just think about it and pray about it and see where you end up. And over a period of time, I saw the need and, specifically, the need for communications in a Catholic diocese to be seen as a ministry and to be seen as part of the mission of the church and not just something that communicates the organisational aspects of a diocese. And so I kind of had a bit of a fight with the Lord at this point of saying, I don't wanna do this, and, you know, how can I get out of it? And it just became very obvious and that I had to say yes. And I'm very clear today. I don't know as much as other Communication Directors who have been trained in this field, who are highly skilled in this area. I'm a missionary, and I bring that to whatever I'm doing. And at the moment, it's Communications, and I feel blessed to be a part of the communications of the church. 

That's really interesting, Neil, actually, because I've noticed in some of the roles I've been in, some dioceses have really embraced communications, as you say, in a way of sharing the mission of the church more widely. And it's so helpful when you're in a role where you're trying to encourage Catholic people in their faith to have people who can do the communication side well. I think it's a really positive development. I was just interested then to think about social media. And it's something I've had to teach myself. I always feel slightly on back foot with the social media. And because you mentioned youth ministry and it's something that I associate immediately with younger people being able to do much better, more efficiently than me. So I wonder, you know, how have you got on with social media? How do you see that fitting into diocesan communications?

So I love social media. I embrace it fully and wholehearted. It's not perfect. It's hard work, and sometimes it's brutal. I think there is many times where it is frustrating, where you want the truth to be told, and it's not being told on social media. And it's important to remember with social media that it's opinion based, not fact based often, and it's how people feel about a situation rather than the situation itself. And I think as the church, we have an obligation to tell the truth in all areas as best we can and as we can see it, and that's the challenge for us. I think it's a place for us to be, and it's a place for us to bring Christ to. I think there's so much bad that can happen through social media that actually the little voices of good and the right questions being asked and the right items being promoted often can make all the difference to an individual. You know? And I'm not sure we're gonna change the world that way, but I think we can certainly journey alongside individual people. 

That's really interesting. Thank you. You've given us some little glimpses of your conversations with the Lord and the Lord opening doors and struggles along the way. What are the kind of things that support you in your faith in the church?

I suppose for me, there's various highlights in my faith life. And so those kind of mountaintop experiences, really, you know, pilgrimages and those kind of things when I have a chance really to focus on my faith. The day to day is often a struggle. I think it is for everybody. You know? The just that sticking to a routine and a rhythm of prayer, can be hard remembering when you're in a meeting about the mundane, trying to stay focused on who I am as a child of God in that moment and try and bring Jesus into that. And it it's tough, and it's tough for everybody, I'm sure. But those mountaintop experiences, things like pilgrimages. I grew up going to Lourdes and I was in the Diocese of Brentwood at that time who have a very big Lourdes pilgrimage, and I was a part of that and I was blessed to be a part of that. And still today, I go to Lourdes, and we're off to Lourdes with the diocese. And I'm the pilgrimage director, actually, for the Diocese of Northampton, and we go the end of August. So I'm looking forward to that. The other high points are within youth ministry, to be honest. I'm just off the back of being part of the team for the Life Teen Summer Camp. So there were 180 of us gathered together at Alton Castle in Staffordshire, and that's a week long camp. And the questions, the journey that the young people are on, really, every year just enhances my faith, a bit more, you know, and prompts me to the questions I should be asking, to the journey that I'm on. And I don't think they realise really as young people. I think it's just for them, it's just life. For me, it's this profound, you know, experience and conversation with them. So I'm also blessed because alongside my role in Communications, I'm the Executive Assistant to the bishop, who is Bishop David Oakley, who is a wonderful man, a great man, and a man of faith. And so my conversations with him are very helpful as well. And he can be uplifting, but challenging as well, and that's important. But equally, one of the things I admire in him is he'll give me the time to work things out. And I'm sure he knows, you know, in in our conversation.  I'm sure that he's like, oh, okay. I know there’s something here. But he doesn't always say. He lets you figure it out, and that's so important, I think. So he's been a real a real blessing for me in in my faith life and in my ministry. 

Now that's great. I can see how other Catholic people are really journeying alongside you and supporting you in your journey. And that's very affirming for the whole basis of why I'm doing the podcast, really. I think, you know, talking to other Catholic people and being around other Catholic people really helps us all to be encouraged and, as you say, challenged, at times. Are there any moments you can look back and think, oh, that was a really tough time, you know, in in my life? I wondered what I was doing for a bit there, but I got back on track. 

Yeah. I think probably university was, certainly for my faith life, that was tough. Almost, I don't wanna say nonexistent, but certainly the least existent that it has been. Although there is always that sense of the Lord being there, you know, I've always had a sense of Him there and never doubted that that firstly that He exists, but also the reality of that within my life. I've always been blessed to know that. But sometimes I've chosen to close the door and do my own thing for a bit, and that's you know, it never quite works out, does it?  I think it's we know that it's better with him, but actually the reality of that is tough sometimes. You know, the day to day journey can be hard and I'm certainly a human being in that regard. 

And I think it can be challenging. Those times of challenge can be when you're in a new environment and all the things that have been supporting you and your faith are suddenly not there because you're in a different environment with different people and you've kinda got to find your way again. I think that can often be a time of challenge for people.

Yeah. And I've grown up in a very supportive Catholic family. My dad eventually converted and became a Catholic when I was 15, and that was the whole family really. But even before that he was very supportive. I went to Catholic primary school, Catholic secondary school. I served on the altar. I, you know, I was involved in lots of different areas of the church. And so, yeah, to suddenly be on my own in a big wide world of people who didn't think the same as me and, you know, their faith wasn't important to them. And yet I really liked them. And there was that sense of, oh, okay. There's something else here. And I just forgot, I think. I just forgot about my faith. And it became a thing that, you know, I'd go home and I'd be like, oh, yeah. I'm going to church. I definitely wasn't going to church. And, you know, so I kinda lost it for a while, but I think the Lord always makes that obvious, and things get a bit too tough in the end. And you're like, oh, okay. I need to change. 

Well, thank you. That's very honest. I'm thinking that because of the role that you're in, obviously you also follow the liturgical year. You said to me once you follow Bishop Oakley around? And so obviously the church's year is there for you. The kind of rhythm of the year is very close, you know. You're kind of planning ahead, I suppose, for what's happening in Advent and what's happening in Lent and knowing what the readings are going to be in a way that other Catholic people might not be if they're not actually working in that environment. So I'm guessing that's really helpful. 

Oh, yeah. 

Does it sometimes take the shine off a little bit? You find yourself on the 1st Sunday of Advent thinking, finally, here we are, and then that's happening like we said, and that's happening like we said.

Yeah. It's more, you know, I sit in church on a Sunday and think, haven't we had this one already? But it's because I've been working with it for some time, you know. So it's yeah, that happens a little bit. I think on the whole, it's a real blessing, you know, that I have time within my job to discover more about our Lord through scripture and through the church and the blessings that that can offer. I'm aware that's the ideal for everybody, really, but most people have busy lives, and they're not able to do it during their jobs, and they're not able to, you know, put the time towards it. So I don't take that for granted. The challenge for me in my ministry is how to communicate that in bite sized chunks that people can grab at their leisure. 

And also images. Now I know that you can do photography. When I'm doing, for example, social media, I struggle ever such a lot with getting suitable images because I think they're so important in that media, aren't they? How did you come to do photography? Was that just a hobby that turned into something useful? Or did you have to do photography because of the role? 

Yeah. The latter. Definitely. It was, so I viewed it as a very important part of my job. I think, people often feel communicated with visually. And particularly in social media, it's the difference between somebody stopping to read a post or not. If they scroll through it, if the picture grabs them, they'll read what you've put. I viewed it as a very important part of my role. And I think, really, people say, oh, are you a photographer?  I'm not at all. Again, it's part of the mission. It's, I'm a missionary. I want to depict through the photographs what is going on and what I'm getting out of it as a pilgrim, as a Christian. And yeah. So if I can do that through images, then praise God. You know, that's another part of the ministry of being in communications.

I'm thinking you must be a very busy person needing to take photographs and create social media and be the Executive Assistant to Bishop David.

Yeah. But busy in a great way, to be honest. There's never a dull moment, which is wonderful for me. It's trying to get the balance, I think. Oftentimes, you can be busy and some things drop, And I've certainly been there, but hopefully, at the moment, the balance is right. And I've got a good team of people and a good group of people around me who are quite quick to say, you know, actually, you haven't done anything about this for a while or that's coming up and you need to - and that's very helpful. Hopefully, at the moment, the balance is right, but it's something I keep an eye on. Life is full. I'm blessed in that way.

Working closely with the Bishop, you're at some very formal long Masses, I should think. But also quite a variety, I guess, for when the Bishop's going around parishes and also through your youth ministry and going to Lourdes and things. I'm wondering what kind of liturgy really speaks to you and your faith. Is there something in particular that is your favourite kind of Mass? 

Do you know, I love the breadth of the church. It's one of the things that I'm really drawn to in our Catholic faith. So the answer to that is no, really. I don't have a particular style, if you like. I enjoy the vast breadth of it all, and I think everything has something to offer. I'd say I'm more comfortable in some areas than others, probably. So, obviously, being in youth ministry, praise and worship, and that kinda, I love that side of things, that joy that can come through that. And those times when you're in a room with people and you just know the Lord is visible, He's, you know, He's tangible in that space, that speaks to me personally. But, yeah, just it's the vast breadth of who we are through the liturgy is extraordinary. And it's one of the things that I really appreciate travelling with the Bishop is that you get to see all of that, And it all makes us the church, and we're all a part of it. 

You mentioned the breadth there, and I was kinda thinking, when I've worked in, Catholic organisations, one of the things that I've really enjoyed is meeting people in so many different organisations and groups who are part of the church, you know. And it does give you a sense of the enormous breadth of people doing different things, people drawn together by different elements of our faith and, a huge amount of work that goes on in the name of our faith and a huge amount of kind of community building that I have found really opened my eyes in a way that  I never saw when I was just a member of a parish, you know. And you must find that too, that you just get a glimpse into so many different parts of the church that perhaps people are less aware of. 

Yeah. I think one of the things that has become very obvious to me in my current role is that the church is not the buildings. It's the people. When you have an opportunity to sit and listen to people's stories and even I mean, I'm about 3 foot away from the bishop as people leave the church and shake his hand. And even in the seconds that they get with him, they share a piece of who they are, and I'm just an observer to that. You know? And  it's wonderful, really, to listen to their stories and who they are. And sometimes, you know, I personally get a bit longer with - it's just people living out their faith in a very real way to them in the best way they can. I think everybody seems to have a sense of struggle, I think. But always through the struggle, there's this sense of joy and real fulfilment in their faith by giving to others. And I think that's something that we should share better. You know, it's not the big national strategies that are making a difference. It's the individual people in their local area who are really responding to the call of the Lord in in their own way, in their own place. And it's remarkable. And often they do it so quietly. You know, I'm always saying to people, oh, I wanna tell people about that. And they're like, oh, don't, don't. Just, it's just remarkable. Just those little glimpses of heaven, really, just around the place that I get to witness in my role is extraordinary.

I completely agree with that. And I think that's something that Pope Francis has captured really well. You know when he talks about how we're all connected and this idea of a sort of caravan of solidarity and our chaotic journey together. I think Pope Francis communicated that image of the church really strongly where we might have just had a sort of People of God phrase before that wasn't really brought to life. I think Pope Francis has done that well.

And he uses the phrase missionary disciples, doesn't he? And I think that's it, really. I think that that's who we are. And I think people often say, well, what is that? And it's so normal, to be honest. It's so ordinary and subtle, but has a huge impact on individuals, people's lives and their - and how we serve them. And we're looking for some kind of big, certainly in a diocese, you're looking for a big diocesan strategy. The next thing that's gonna solve the problem, you know, whatever the problem is. And, actually, the answer and the response is in the individual, is in the local person who's just plodding away really and doing their bit. They're being a missionary disciple just in their every day. And as I say, I'm blessed to see it. I know lots of people don't get to see it, and I certainly don't take it for granted. 

Thanks, Neil. You've spoken so well. It's been really encouraging talking to you, Neil. I think you've presented such a positive view of the church and of all of us Catholics doing our bit and living our faith journeys and making a difference where we are. I think listeners will find that really encouraging and affirming. So, you know, thanks ever so much for joining me today. 

Thanks, Theresa. It's been a real pleasure.

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow All Kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms to be sure of not missing an episode. And follow our X/Twitter and Facebook accounts @KindsofCatholic.

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