22: God's left the building!

Episode 22: In this personal conversation, Andy explains how his unwilling attendance at a Catholic conference when he was 11 changed his life  - and the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movement continues to nurture his faith. He is movingly honest about how and why he retrained as a journalist, in his 30s.

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Catholic Charismatic Renewal
New Dawn Conference

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Transcript

You are listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways, we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together. On a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations. 

It's really lovely to be joined today by Andy from Hexham in Newcastle. So thanks ever so much for making some time to be here, Andy.

Happy to be here, Theresa. Thank you very much for inviting me. 

I often start by asking people, have you always been a Catholic? Were you born into a Catholic family and brought up there, or is something you've come to later? 

Yeah. So I have been raised in a Catholic family. I had had quite a lot of input in the church when I was younger. But really, I had a number of experiences at a conference called New Dawn in Walsingham, and I kind of experienced something of God, which kept me kind of interested. So I wouldn't say I always had maintained my faith, but there was definitely something there that made me interested in being a Catholic and staying as a Catholic, kind of experience of God's love, the Holy Spirit. 

So tell us about the New Dawn event then, because I've only recently heard about it, but it's been going for some decades, I believe, at Walsingham.

It's a conference started in the late eighties by Eileen and Miles Dempsey. I think it was really an attempt really to represent the church with all its lights on, to represent the liturgical, the charismatic, the Marian, all the features of the church brought together. There was a real emphasis on young people as well. So I was only 11 when I first went there. Thought it was gonna be absolutely terrible. Thought it was gonna be awful. You know, I didn't want to, really didn't want to be there, but actually had an experience. It was in a tent in a field and you had some people came over from Ireland to do some teaching. And they did some songs. Actually, the music was quite good. So I thought, if nothing else, the music's alright. They were talking about what I'd heard at Mass, but in quite a different way as if it was real, as if it was something that that really was real for them. They weren't that much older than me, probably in their twenties, these people. And they, they were just sharing their simple stories about experiencing God's love, experiencing the love of Jesus. And I always thought that Jesus was someone who was just in a history book, a historical figure, a nice guy, but nothing more. But they were talking about him as if he was alive. And of course, as Catholics, we do believe He is alive. So that really set me on a path, a journey, really. And I've always been grateful to those people who've just shared that message in such a brilliant way. And I say the music was very much part of the worship music, really good quality songs that really spoke to me. So I'd say that that was the start of my faith journey. 

That's lovely, isn't it? Often, we're engaged in trying to sow seeds and hope something happens. So it's really nice to be at the other side of it and see how those seeds from when you were 11 years old have actually borne fruit in your life. Just one more thing on the New Dawn Conference. Did you go as a family then to the conference? 

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. So I was brought up in in Cheshire. There's a parish there, Saint John's, and the priest was encouraging people to go to this conference. So my mom and dad had agreed to do that. We went as a family - to say it wasn't something I was keen to do. Church, you know, it was a whole week. I was thinking, oh, I could be doing anything else. But, actually, it was really great. Went back for many, many years. Just would go back and almost have a faith boost, try and come back and live it out. But it was certainly something original and something that stays with me to this day. Came out of Catholic Charismatic Renewal. That's something I'm still involved in now. 

Has your faith been something that's guided the work that you've chosen to do? 

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Been very much part of my journey. I've had an interesting career. I've had times where I've had a real struggle, actually. So now I'm a journalist, but I haven't always been a journalist. And one time when I trained to be a teacher, an RE teacher and really enjoyed the training. I was really set up to do this. But I got a job in school. It didn't go too well for me. It was a time when we had 3 young children, baby, the workload just really got on top of me. I just really couldn't carry on with this. And I really, that is one time but I really, you know, really wrestled with God about this. I really argued with God. I said, Look, God, I feel like I'm following your path and following your way. And yet here I am, I can't cope, I really couldn't cope. And it basically led to me having something of a breakdown something of a time where I just couldn't face it really. So I had to be off work. And I thought I'd be off for a couple of weeks, I'll get back to it. But actually, I ended up being off for quite a while, for about 4 months. And this really gave me a time to explore what was happening. And I always remember a priest friend of mine messaged me, short text, which just said, God isn't finished with you yet. And that really helped me. You know, I was thinking, Oh, my goodness, God's left the building. He's, he's out of it. He's, I don't know where he is. But that really got me back on track. It helped me to think, well, actually, where is God in this? This is the time of suffering. This is a time of difficulty. You know, I started to reflect upon Jesus's suffering. Obviously, my suffering was nothing compared to that. But almost thinking, well, you know, after Jesus was killed, He did rise again. Is it possible for me to rise again? And that's when I started to reflect on really what it is I wanted to do. As much as I love the teaching and I enjoyed it, really wasn't for me. And that's when I started to think about journalism. And I always thought, well, I like writing. I love reading. I love the written word. Again, through the same priest friend who used to ask me, you know, what is it you really want to do, what gives you life? It stirred something in me as I prayed and reflected on it. It was journalism. So that's when I retrained in journalism and was quite kind of exciting because I, you know, I was nearly mid 30s at the time.  I thought I didn't expect to be doing this. I always found that God is the God of surprises. Takes you to different places. As I progressed, that's when I started to work for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal website - that was in 2017. That's something I'm still doing to this day, which is about really bringing stories of what's happening in charismatic renewal in  this country and in Wales, sharing on the website, sharing on Facebook, sharing on the Internet. And it's really good to just read about and hear about the great work that God's doing, the Holy Spirit is doing. It’s that something I really enjoy and but I've not come to it just out of nowhere. That's, what I wanted to make the point about my work journey is, I really have encountered the presence of the risen Christ, but also the presence of the suffering Christ as well, had that double experience. 

That's a really real journey, isn't it, Andy? Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. I think there's lots there that people living real lives and struggling with work and family life and balancing all of that will be able to recognise. So the charismatic movement that you mentioned, I'll put the link in the episode notes. 

Yeah. 

Thank you for sharing that and for being very honest about your mental health issues too. That's not something we've talked about on the pod particularly, but obviously that's something that lots of people will recognise and, you know, will echo in other people's lives too. It's interesting to hear a connection with our faith too through mental health struggles because that's not necessarily a way of looking at mental health that is promoted in wider society.

Absolutely. 

So you found your feet better in journalism and it connects with your faith in a really helpful way. Are there practices now that support your faith or support your faith journey that you can keep coming back to? 

Main thing for me is personal prayer. And reading scripture is something that I've really come to love. I remember reading something from the 2nd Vatican Council, that quote that they used, which was, ‘Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ’. Someone said that to me one day. I think it's a quote from St. Jerome, I was really stung. And I thought, do I really know scripture? So I really took it upon myself to get reading it, to studying it, and to praying the scripture, the word of God. And I think it's just become a real treasure for me, speaking into my life. Even this morning, I was reading, praying about this, and the word that came to me was from one of the Psalms. It just said, The Lord is compassion and love. That's a lovely word, just really being guided by the word of God, by the scriptures. You know, in our tradition, we've got Mass readings every day.  We've got the office to read through, which is a great treasure. That would be something that that I keep coming back to all the time. Also, going to Mass is so important to me, being part of the faith community and going to confession as well. I was actually doing something last night with a group of people. And we were just chatting about how great it is when you hear the words of absolution, you can actually hear them and get excited. And the priest was sharing actually that the number of times he'd seen people come in to Confession with him literally hunched over and go walking out like, you know, 10 feet tall, absolutely beaming. So that's something that is really important to me, you know, receiving the sacraments. I mean, another way I pray is through praise and worship music. So often I'll put songs on and just praise freely. You know, the Psalms are full of people getting excited about God and Alleluia and lots of exclamation marks and praise the Lord. And that's something that I enjoy. And I really connect with God that way.  While I was talking about the charismatic movement, it relies on, you know, calling on the Holy Spirit, calling on the power from on high that Jesus spoke of. That's something that's really important to me and really helps me to pray, really receiving that Holy Spirit. Something that is really pivotal, central to charismatic renewal is the baptism in the Holy Spirit. John said, I will baptise you with water, but Jesus, he will baptise you with the Holy Spirit. The disciples went through this experience at Pentecost. They received the Holy Spirit. They received the tongues of fire. And that's something that's really happened. That's been really big in my life. That my life's really been turned upside down by power of the Holy Spirit. That getting to know Jesus personally, getting to know the love of the Father. That is something that is absolutely key to my life every day, being able to try and be that missionary disciple that the Pope talks about, you know, trying to be the presence of Jesus in the world. I know I need so much help to do that, so much grace and so much mercy, and, you know, the Holy Spirit is the one who helps me to do that. 

Thank you. Thank you for sharing all of that. 

In terms of work, I read somewhere that Pope John Paul II, some of his writings were found. The top of some of the things that he'd written was the words Veni Sancte Spiritus and Ave Maria, so Come Holy Spirit and Hail Mary. And so that's something I've tried to do now. Whenever I write something, I put at the top of the page, you know, Come Holy Spirit, Mary pray for us. A way of giving back. Whether it's an article or a feature or an interview, just giving that to God. I find that quite helpful. That's a kind of concrete way I try to bring that into my work. 

That's great. I'm nicking that. That's a really beautiful thing to do. You've captured there so much richness that there is in the church to support our faith. It's amazing what there is available to us to be part of. And I was thinking while you were speaking about how, you know, we know that we are each loved by God and every hair on our head is counted. But it's amazing when you are committed to your faith and committed to having a relationship with God, how much the Lord leads you to things that enrich your life, you know, to study the scriptures and find things there that lift you up and support you and give more meaning to your life. It's amazing how, how blessed we are with all of those graces and blessings. Even though we kinda know those things are there, hearing someone talk about them in a very real way is useful. So thank you. I sometimes ask people if there's a particular kind of Mass that they like. There's different ways of celebrating the Mass, different kinds of liturgy. I wonder if there's anything that particularly speaks to you. 

That reverence is a really important thing in Mass. That, you know, we are doing something that is really special, is really sacred. We say, you know, the Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life. Before Mass, just sometimes it's not easy. I've got 3 kids, and if we're all piled into the church, sometimes it's not easy to necessarily prepare brilliantly, but, you know, trying to prepare my heart to be at Mass to receive well and to be able to listen to the scripture readings. I've been to a lot of Masses where there is lively praise and worship music, where it's relevant. It's reflecting what the readings are saying. And the congregation is really praying the Mass together and is really singing with gusto. So just the Mass, I suppose, where there's reverence, where it's lively, where there is good teaching, there's a good homily. There have been some Masses where they have a 10 minute silence after Holy Communion to actually say, this is an amazingly important moment. Words aren't necessarily enough. So let's just be silent. And I found that really powerful. The other thing was at a Mass at the Divine Renovation conference -  it's about parish renewal -  that Mass, after communion, they had a group of nuns doing some Gregorian chants, and it was absolutely beautiful, a transcendent kind of moment of eternity. Beautiful singing just helped me to really reflect on what I've just done, you know, who I just received, I just received Jesus, all those different elements. I don't know that that answers your question properly. But it's such a mystery, such a blessing, and so much to learn, and so much the Lord wants to teach us. It's such a gift that we have in our tradition that we have the Mass. There are lots to be thankful for.

And then you mentioned your parish there and bringing your family to church and all the challenges of getting the kids out of the door and all of that. Is the parish community important to you and your family? Is that something that supports you? Have you always been in the same parish? 

Yeah. I mean, we've actually moved quite a bit over the years, but it's always been important to us to be able to connect with the parish. Parish that we're in at the moment, the priest he actually invited us to do a course. It's called Life in the Spirit seminars, and he invited us to run that in in his church, which was really lovely, a really good way of serving. And he just made it so welcoming. It was lovely and warm. There was tea and coffee.  You know, thank God for that. What a lovely way of serving and just involving us in that parish.  Trying to include the kids; a few weeks ago, they made their Confirmation.  They did it all together, which was lovely. So hopefully, that can be a help to them, to spur them on in their own faith journey. That's what we, me and my wife, try and do. We try and just put them in places where they can be blessed, where they can have their faith built up and encouraged, and pray for them, which I think is really important. 

This is a difficult time, isn't it, to bring children up in faith? There's so many distractions for young people in today's world. 

Absolutely. And, you know, young people just bring so much life to the church, so much joy and energy and brilliant ideas and crazy ideas and really can make such an impact. And I just think that youth ministry is something that is so important. I was at a conference a few weeks ago, actually, called Celebrate, which is, it's like a family conference, in a school in Birmingham. It was about a thousand people there. The kids were absolutely everywhere. And they were receiving high quality discipleship formation, all ages, from little babies to toddlers, to older ones to teenagers. And, you know, they were showing what they'd learned about the Bible, about God's love. And that just gives me so much hope. It was a really great Catholic family weekend. 

That sounds great. I think there's something wonderful about being with a whole lot of people who are Catholics and not feeling quite so niche in the world. 

You know, we really need each other, don't we? We really need to be standing shoulder to shoulder saying, you know, this is our faith. This is what we practice. You know, sometimes you can feel like you've got two heads or you're the weirdo in the corner, but, you know, you come together, you share faith, you share your lives, and you realise, I've got quite a lot in common. Really, a lot of people felt empowered to then having had that weekend, to go out and live their faith in their families, in their workplaces, in their schools, and bringing that gospel message out there. And I'm really excited to hear what's happened since. I know lockdown was a good few years now, but I think that really did affect people. You know, and as a church, we have such a gift of community. I was telling you about Life in the Spirit Seminars. Last week, we had to go at the end, me and my wife, and people were just hanging around chatting for ages. They wanted to talk. They wanted to talk about their faith. You know, we should be -  I'm on my soapbox now -  as a church, we should be saying, Look, come! You're welcome. You know, don't stay away. Come and experience God's love.  Come and experience real community. That's my sales pitch.

It's a good one. 

Come to church. Yeah. In all seriousness, when you're welcome, you feel welcome. You you wanna go back.

I'm trying to think while you're speaking and when you're speaking about your own personal faith journey and then about the whole community, I'm trying to remember a quote from somewhere, one of the Popes, I think, who said something about…Our mission is to call people to a deeper understanding of what it is to be a human being. We can have such a narrow view in the Western world of what it is to be a human being. You know, being a productive person, who needs to end their life when they've stopped being productive, or stopped enjoying every moment in some hedonistic way. That actually there's something much deeper about being a human being than that, that I think our faith really illuminates in our lives. 

Absolutely. I mean, when you experience that personal love, that’s real, that changed my whole life, fell off my chair. I always believed in God. I'd never have a problem believing in God. But I thought God has got bigger things to worry about than little old me. When I had that experience of, God loves everyone, but God loves you. That's life changing. That changed my life, changes my life every day. Despite my sins, despite my imperfections, God loves me. That's what everyone's looking for. Everyone's looking for that affirmation. As a church, that's the message we need to be giving. You're valued. You're loved. You're welcome. How can we support you? How can we love you? How can we work together? From the Bible, you know, one of the verses that really helped me was the baptism of Jesus in Mark's gospel. The father says to Jesus, You are my son whom I love. With whom I am well pleased. You know, this is at the start of the ministry of Jesus. He's, as far as we know, he's not done any miracles yet. He's not healed the sick. He's not raised the dead. And in the same way, God does the same for us, for me. And I spent years reading that verse, these words coming round in my head again and again, You are my son, I love you. I'm pleased with you. In all seriousness, though, you said before about young people and challenges they have social media, that the messages they get, things they see online. It's really horrible. They need to be hearing that voice of affirmation. We all do. 

I think you've captured there also that it needs to be heard over and over somehow, in order to get through this barrier that is there for people who are busy with, distracted with, so many other things. Even when you believe it, you can hear it anew the next day and the next day, can't you? That, you know, there's enough there for our lives. 

Totally. I mean, someone had advised me to do that actually. He said, Go before the Blessed Sacrament and just look at that line and just hear it given to you. I thought, Oh my goodness, how am I gonna sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament just with that word? But like you said, I just repeated it again and again, because other voices start coming in that you’re useless, you're a waste of time, or you look stupid or… but actually, no, this is what God says, You are my child. I love you. I'm pleased with you. And I did. I repeated it again and again. It's something I still do to this day. We read in the scriptures, Remember, God's always saying. Remember. Remember when I brought you out of Egypt. Remember when I helped you. And that's because we quickly forget.

Thank you very much, Andy. I feel like we're drawing to the end of this episode. It's been really interesting talking to you, Andy, and I really appreciate how you brought your whole self to this conversation and shared so much that has meant a great deal, and does mean a great deal to you in your life and the things that have helped you and the challenges that you've experienced. It's been really useful. I think people will find so much to resonate with their own lives there too. And this podcast is all about affirming and encouraging us in our faith and challenging us too at times. And I think hearing your life story will really do that for people. So thank you so much for talking about those things. 

Cheers, Theresa. Nice to speak to you. God bless. Bye bye. 

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow All Kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms to be sure of not missing an episode. And follow our X, Twitter and Facebook accounts @KindsofCatholic. You can comment on episodes and be part of the dialogue there. You can also text me if you're listening to the podcast on your phone, although I won't be able to reply to those texts.

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