23: It was very intense

Episode 23: Shantel shares her love of going on retreat. Recognising that taking social action is 'in the bible,' she explains how she and two friends, with their school chaplain, made life better for 20,000 young people in the North East. She thoughtfully explains her Syro-Malabar heritage - and how she brings God into her life at university.


Find out more:

Shantel speaks highly of Fr Xavier Khan
Fr Mike Schmitz Bible in a Year

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Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You are listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways, we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together. On a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped to shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations. 

So listen, I'm really looking forward to today's conversation. I'm joined by Shantel, who is taking some time out from her studies to speak with me today. And I think this is gonna be really interesting. 

Yeah. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me. 

So, Shantel, maybe you can start with a little bit about, are your family Catholic? Are you a cradle Catholic? Were you brought up in the church? 

Yes. I am. Yeah. My parents are Catholic. Grandparents are Catholic. It's always been in the family. I went to a Catholic school. You know, I've always been going to church my whole life. It's only it's what I've known, basically. 

Okay. And are you someone who has struggled with that a little bit along the way, or is your faith very stable?

I think, that's a good question. Like, at the start, definitely, like, because it's in the family, you know, you just go to church. But I think it takes a certain amount of maturity, and obviously, when you get older to kind of follow on the path of being a Catholic and kind of finding God in your own way. Obviously, when I'm younger, I couldn't really, you know, fully appreciate it. But now I'm at the stage where I've found God, like, all by myself and, you know, it's not just, oh, I'm a Catholic because my parents are. But because I've chosen to be so, you know, I've found Him myself, and I think that's what really makes me Catholic. 

That's really interesting. Yeah. I think there is something there about - I like your phrase that you've found God by yourself. I think that's really good. But there's something about your family, your heritage that might be really interesting for listeners because you're from a Syro-Malabar community. Tell us a bit about that for people who might not know. 

Yeah. Of course. So I'm originally from Kerala, which is a state in India. It's like a southern state. And there's kind of like different divisions. Like divisions of the, you know, Christian church. One of them is the Syro-Malabar Church. We're also called Saint Thomas Christians. And it's important because in I think it was 52 AD, Saint Thomas came to Kerala where he evangelised, you know, prophesied, kind of showed miracles to the people that were there at the time. And it kind of caused that conversion from, like, Hinduism to Catholicism, being Christian. It started from there. So, by that, you know, evangelisation, from Saint Thomas, It's kind of spread across that state. So, yeah, as the Indian country is quite Hindu, predominated. The south is known to have more Catholics. And that is kind of where the Syro-Malabar church stems from.

And this is Saint Thomas the Apostle? 

Yes. Yeah. 

How wonderful to know that your church is founded by Saint Thomas the Apostle.

Yeah. That's why we're called Saint Thomas Christians. And it's just it's amazing because, like, he's a saint. He came to Kerala, and he kind of showed us all these miracles, which kind of gave that sense of proof. And it led to that mass growth of Catholicism down south.

Might people who aren't from that heritage, might they notice differences if they came to Mass in a Syro-Malabar parish? 

Well, it's definitely more I would say the Masses are long, first of all. In India, that's one thing. Indians are very devotional, very, very faithful. And it's very important in India, you know, to have that religion, to be Catholic. In terms of the churches themselves, they're more, I would say they're much bigger. They're very, very colourful. There's no seats in the church. It's just like you come in and stand just because the churches get that full. I would say just because the volume of people, we all just like stand around and kneel down. It's kind of a rush in the morning, you know, to find a spot in church because it's so full. I just went this summer, and it was so full and it's boiling hot as well, so that doesn't help. But they've got fans. So it's just really lively. And I would say it's like English churches, but then it's volumised, essentially. 

Oh, that's really interesting. And then, otherwise, is the liturgy the same? 

Yeah. It is pretty much. Yeah. It's just longer. Like, the homilies will be longer, but I would, I'd like to say that it is pretty much the same, like the Latin kind of Mass. Yeah. 

Oh, okay. Okay. So the mass would be in Latin?

No. They don't say in Latin. They say in the language, which is called Malayalam. That is the language that we speak in Kerala. 

Okay. And then here, in the Diocese of Hexham in Newcastle where you are, is there a parish that follows the Syro- Malabar tradition? 

We just go to the Latin Masses. There are sometimes Malayalam masses, the Syro- Malabar Masses. There's one in the church, Our Lady Queen of the Rosary, actually. So there's a priest that comes down and will say the Mass. It's a full Malayalam Mass. Usually, it's like one and a half hours. I haven't been to one in a while actually since, you know, I've been in Sunderland. Yeah. It happens once a month. It's just great to meet my friends, my, you know, Indian friends and just to connect with them. I think it's important that I, that we, attend, you know, that we can still maintain that kind of heritage and the tradition. I think it's amazing going to English Mass and then going to Malayalam Mass, Syro-Malabar Mass at the same time. But, yes, it’s just about that balance. 

Great. And now you mentioned you're somewhere else now, so you're at university. And some of my other guests have shared that, you know, going to university has been a bit more difficult to continue practising their faith. They've had to kind of work a bit harder at it because they're no longer in the parish in which they grew up, for example. How have you found that transition? 

Well, it's definitely been hard in the sense that, you know, you're coming to uni by yourself. You know, you've got loads on your plate, and it's hard to fit in worship, especially for me. I can speak for myself. But, you know, I've really practised, trying to read my bible every day, and I'll go to Mass every Sunday. There's actually a church quite near. It's only like a 5 minute walk. So it's really handy for me. And, you know, even if I'm not feeling that on a Sunday, I will make myself go because I know it'll make me feel better. It's an early start, and it's the least I can do, like, once a week, to praise God, you know, because he's been so amazing in my life. He's given me so many blessings. And also to just bring him into my uni life as well just by reading the bible. I'm trying to get through the whole bible. Currently, I'm on Numbers. Slowly making progress. But, yeah, it is definitely hard to bring Jesus into your uni life. But I think it's very important, you know, when we're sitting in our accommodations, the enemy is always there. Like, when we open the bible, suddenly I feel tired and different things like that. The enemy is always there to destroy. It's important that we persevere, fight through because it's the least we can do. 

Now you mentioned the Book of Numbers there, and I was just thinking because I'm just working towards the Book of Numbers myself, and I'm doing this Bible in a Year with Fr Mike Schmitz online. And I was wondering if you're doing that or if you've just started reading at page 1.

I'm not following anything to be fair. I'm just going on my own accord. 

Okay. Well, that's brave. 

It takes lots of perseverance, definitely. Like when I come back from a long day, it's so easy to just get in bed, just crash, but it's amazing when I start reading though. 

Okay. And are you using any kind of commentary to help you? Because it can be difficult to understand the context, I find. One of my previous guests was talking about Father Mike Schmitz and this Bible in a Year podcast, and so that's what I'm trying to work with now because he gives you a little bit of background, which I find helpful.

 Yeah. It does. I do need to start doing that. That was actually something I needed to do because I know that the bible, it's very old fashioned. It is difficult to understand. Sometimes it's easy to just, you know, glaze over the sentences, but it's important to realise that every sentence means something. Yeah. It's definitely greater than my understanding. 

And are you reading the Bible - just I'm just interested - are you reading the Bible in English or in -

- Malayalam. Well, so with Malayalam, I can speak. I can't write that well. I can read, but it's really, really, like, slow. I'll spend the whole day trying to read a sentence, basically. So I have my English bible with me. 

You mentioned there that you've been very blessed, and I know that you've done some really good work with community organizing. I think that's something that listeners will be interested to know about. Tell us about how that started. 

Well, it's funny actually. It started in 6th form. So I originally signed up to do the Saint John Paul award. That's where, you know, I was able to speak more with my school chaplain, Michael, and he kind of steered us towards this direction. Because in my mind, Saint John Paul, it was about organising in Mass and  helping out with Mass. That's what I originally thought it was.  I thought I'd be reading the bible, helping as an altar server. I thought that's what it was. But he kind of steered us into another direction. There was me and 2 other girls. And he kind of said, you know, if there's a specific cause you want to act upon, then it would be good to do it with this award. And I was thinking what cause am I meant to act upon? And, we were thinking about loads of different issues in this world, like mental health and the cost of living crisis. And part of the cost of living crisis that was affecting the students specifically was the bus fares. So, we decided to act upon that, and that's kind of where it started. 

And then for listeners, just explain what you were able to achieve.

So it started off with conducting many listening campaigns. We found out from all the students in our school that it was a problem that many students were facing, and that their families were struggling to fund the bus fares. And that it would be most of the wages, especially if the student had a part time job. It would be taking most of their wages. So the bus costs were, like, the main issue, essentially. We decided to kind of act upon it by sending different emails and meeting with the CEO of Arriva. It was a very amazing experience. It was like the whole of my 6th form. It was like the whole 2 years spent trying to find the emails and trying to get this meeting with the CEO. But when we finally did, she was able to agree to subsidise the fares for young people, and they've capped it at £1 currently. So it'll benefit, I think it was 20,000, like, more than 20,000 young people in the North East. And it's just really amazing, you know, the impact that young people can make. It's taught me that, you know, as young people, we can make a change because I thought it was authorities and older people, basically, who are able to make change like this. But it's crazy how we were 3 students and the chaplain, as well. Like, it was us 4 on this journey. It was amazing to see how many friends we made along the way, especially with, like, Tyne & Wear Citizens. They chipped in as well. And the mayor of North of Tyne, and it was amazing to see these connections build between us. It just showed me that that's key to getting up the ladder, you know, like making all these connections with people so that you can make change. 

Yeah. And I think it's really inspiring that the school chaplain supported you to do that, to take some action, which was not what you were first thinking being part of chaplaincy was about. That's really interesting that, of course, we can take action for social justice. Some listeners may well know of Catholic people working with Citizens around the country on different things. So there's lots of ways in which we can absolutely work together, even if you're a young person and maybe more so if you're a young person. Because I think maybe for that CEO, she probably has loads of meetings with older people with all their agendas. And actually to have young people come in with something very practical that's gonna make a difference to their lives, I bet that actually gets noticed more in some ways. 

Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And it's also in the bible as well, you know, fighting for social justice. So that was kinda something I neglected because I was thinking about, how can I volunteer in Mass? Whereas it's not about doing everything in Mass, but it's about, you know, bringing the church outside the four walls as well. So that was important for me to learn as well. 

Like working for the common good? 

Yeah.

And that obviously is helping young people continue their education when perhaps they might have struggled to do so. 

Yeah. It's very important. It's a human right, isn't it? 

So well done you. That's fantastic. I think people will be really inspired by hearing what you were able to do. And I'd encourage listeners to get onto school chaplains and encourage them to make some changes where they are with the help of the young people they're working with. 

Of course. 

So just to go back to your personal faith a little bit, Shantel, you mentioned reading the Bible and your project to work through that. Are there any prayers that are helpful to you or practices that help support your faith? 

Oh, that's a good question. In terms of practices, we usually have retreats. I actually love going to retreats because most importantly, it's like a place where I can, you know, talk to my friends that I haven't seen in ages first of all. Every time I went to a retreat, I always come back feeling just energised, and I feel, you know, my faith's been almost topped up. That's how I think about it. But I went to this Grand Youth Conference in the summer. It was like a 3 day long conference. And, you know, I was really, like, touched by the Holy Spirit, honestly. It was amazing. There was many different speakers and this really well known priest in Kerala. He's from a place called Attappadi, Father Xavier Khan. Basically, he came and spoke to us, and he was really amazing. And I remember during the dinner break, he was just standing there talking to these families that have just come, like, long distances just to speak to him. And me and my friend, we were thinking that we wanted to speak to him. If we can just say hi to him or just, you know, just converse with him for at least a minute, that would be amazing. So we had to miss our desserts, but we ran. The queue was slowly fading away. Anyways, we managed to, you know say hi, and we asked for a blessing, and it was amazing, honestly. He's so humble, and his wisdom is just amazing. In that retreat, there was holy Mass as well as many activities and games. So it was light hearted as well, but it was really you know, it was really testing our faith in the sense that we were given short breaks, and it was about reading the bible and analysing. It was kind of full on, I would say. But in the end, it made me realise that I, you know, I was lacking in my faith and that I need to persevere more and be closer to Him, which I realised I wasn't that close to Him. Through this retreat, I was able to kind of refigure that out. Because initially, I wasn't that keen on going on this retreat, but it was my one friend and my parents who are saying like, oh, you should go. It's only 3 days. But when I was in in that space, it really changed my life. I would say that's the one retreat that has made me a more passionate Catholic. It was before uni, which I thought it was very good to put it at that time. Because once people go to uni, it's them and their own lives. So I feel like that retreat's kind of spilled into my uni life, which is amazing for me personally. 

That's fantastic. And all in 3 days  The Holy Spirit can make a big difference in 3 days with someone.

It was very intense. We finished really late at night. There was some amazing songs that obviously get stuck in your head. And we finished really late, like 1 AM. A few hours to sleep. I came back home so tired, but filled at the same time, if you know what I mean. 

And that priest is working in Kerala. So I'm just thinking if people were thinking, He sounds good, can we hear him? They'll have to go to Kerala, will they, to hear him? 

So this retreat was in it was in England, actually. So he travelled. He travelled from Kerala to England. He only stayed for 2 days, I believe. But the time he was in the UK, loads of Malayalis, loads of Indians from England would travel up to see him. I remember seeing this couple with their child. They were just talking to the priest. They were asking for a blessing for the child. And so he was standing there, you know, giving people blessings, giving children blessings. He's really healing. 

Good. I think we're coming to a close. Then I was wondering if there are images that are helpful. So maybe there's a statue of Saint Thomas in every Syro- Malabar church, I'm thinking. 

There is. 

Are there features of that that you can look at it and think, right, that's Saint Thomas because he's holding something in particular or he's wearing something in particular? 

Oh, I think it's like the style of the clothing. He always has this brown garment. And it's always like a statue of Saint Thomas. 

Okay. Great. For the social media to go with the episode, I might try and track down an image of Saint Thomas in a Syro-Malabar style. 

Thanks.

Thanks ever so much for that conversation, Shantel. That's been really interesting hearing from you today, and good luck with your studies too. 

Thank you. I've really enjoyed, you know, speaking, answering questions. I love doing it.

Good. And I think listeners will really appreciate hearing what you've had to say. I think it'll be inspiring for people. So thank you for making the time. 

I hope they've learned something new. Thanks, Theresa. Take care. 

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday.

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