24: Pieces of a beautiful puzzle

Episode 24: Michael shares how he is still putting together what it means to be a Catholic after the death of a wonderful Franciscan priest inspired him to 'dig deeper' into his faith. Hear how Michael is tackling reading the scriptures and trying to have a consistent prayer life and see what resonates with your faith journey.

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Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You are listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together. On a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations. 

So listeners, I'm really pleased to welcome Michael to our conversation today. It's gonna be really interesting. Hello, Michael. 

Hello, Theresa. Thank you for having me on.

I was just saying, listeners, before we began recording that I thought we might start in a different place today. So I'm wondering if you can just explain to us, Michael, then where you're at today in your life and in your faith.

Yeah. So where to start really? I suppose the biggest news for me at the moment in terms of where I'm at in my life is the fact that I got engaged a week ago. 

Congratulations. 

Yeah. So very much looking forward to seeing where the Lord takes me in that regard. Yeah. At the moment, I work for Million Minutes Catholic Youth Charity. But I also work a second job working for Synod Fruits with a particular project with them called School For Synodality. And I suppose in terms of my faith, I would have to say that I'm a work in progress as I'm sure a lot of people are. Definitely not perfect, but trying my hardest. 

Are there times in your life that you can think, well, I can see how God brought me to this point, to these two places that you're working, which are faith based. You know, you're able to work from a place of faith in those two jobs, I guess. Can you see how the Lord brought you to those places or does it seem all a bit random? 

It's funny because I think as with a lot of things, it seems random at the time. I mean, certainly speaking from my experience with finding myself in these two jobs, they can seem random. They can seem that they've just occurred by pure happenstance. But I think looking back with the gift of hindsight, I think God was looking for a way to bless me. And certainly with my job with Million Minutes, they scooped me up just after I finished university. I think that was God kind of ushering me along a certain pathway and not letting me, stray. I think with this second job, again, it was such a blessing, and I'm so fortunate to work with people that are so well connected. 

So if we just go back a little bit, you mentioned there leaving university and going to Million Minutes. Was your faith important to you? Were you brought up a Catholic, for example? Starting at the very beginning, were you brought up a Catholic? 

Yeah. So I was brought up a cradle Catholic, went to a Catholic primary school, went to a Catholic secondary school for at least for the first three years, and then I changed school after that to a nonselective state school. I think as is the case with a lot of cradle Catholics like myself, there comes a certain point where you either suddenly find yourself questioning your faith or you're immediately sort of strengthened in your faith. I was the former. This happens throughout life, but there was a point in my sort of mid teens where I guess, it was almost a bit of a rebellious phase. And it was, I don't want to go to church anymore. Don't think I -  I don't believe that Jesus came to save us. Interestingly, I believed that there was a Creator. I don't think I've ever doubted that there was, but it was just, yeah, this sort of agnostic phase in my life. And, eventually, by the grace of God, I sort of made my way back to the church, but it wasn't really, I didn't quite get it, if there is a way to get it. And it was only actually in my final year of university that there was a a certain moment where, again, I was given this choice of 2 paths. I either give up completely or I hold onto the one thing that I know is stable and that is God. And I went with that option that that I held on to that rock. It led to a sort of radical reorientation of my life, which was hard for me, hard for the people around me, but, obviously, ultimately, for the best. And I think it was almost like a preordained moment that I was going to encounter. And certainly, in the last couple of years, my faith has played a Massive role in my life that has never had before. 

That is really interesting. People do talk about making a choice sometimes on the podcast. What I'd like to just explore a bit more is during that time that you, before your final year at university, where you'd had a bit of wobble, let's say, Did you pray during that time?  Were you thinking about praying? Or was that part of you just closed off? 

Interestingly, I continued to, save from the pandemic, I continued to go to Mass. And then during the pandemic, it was a bit hit and miss. But I  continued to go to Mass once or twice a week. I did pray in that regards as you do when you participate in the Mass. That was sort of just me going through the motions, I think. And then outside of that, it was only really in moments of real need that I prayed. Again, as I think with a lot of people, it's when you're in a real sort of dire place, you do turn to something. Yeah. And so I found myself praying only when things got really bad, and things did get quite bad. But it was, yeah, it was almost like a last resort. I didn't live a prayerful life. Sorry. I don't know if that answers your question. 

I think that's helpful. Yeah. There's lots there that people will recognise from their own lives. And I'm just thinking now then you've turned a corner and faith is much bigger in your life. What are the things now that nourish your faith? Are there prayers or practices that you find really helpful? 

I think, like, certainly at the moment, I have a renewed love for the Mass, and I find that to be really nourishing. One of the things that I'm continuing to work on is building up a consistent prayer life and one that is truly focused on God. Again, not going through the motions. One of the things that I find really nourishing is actually reading through scripture. I'm going through it with a notebook. I mean, I'm just going through Proverbs at the moment. Reading the bible with a prayerful mindset as opposed to just approaching it like any other book makes the world of difference. And I know that's that's just sort of foundation level Catholicism there, but this is the first time that I've ever approached the bible with real meditation and with a real desire to learn something from it and to receive something from it rather than just, Okay, well, I've decided that I'm gonna read this book front to back, and we'll see how we go. It's the first time that I really felt as if I'm getting something out of it with the spiritual life. When you receive, you're then able to give more. But I think that's definitely helped. And, of course, I find the rosary is a wonderful set of prayers. It's one of these prayers where you can do it regardless of how you're feeling, except maybe if you're tired. If you're tired, then it's a,  it can be a bit difficult. I think prayer said through perseverance and with perseverance is, some of the most powerful prayer that we can offer. 

Yeah. I think that's really interesting about the rosary being something you can do, you know, even if you're not feeling it. That is helpful sometimes to have something that just has a structure that you can work through and make some connection with God, even when you can't think of how to do it today.

 Exactly. 

I'm just wondering if there are people you admire, Catholic people that you or that have been helpful to you. Sometimes people find a teacher who's been really important in their faith journey or someone at church or a particular priest. I wonder if there's anyone like that in your life. 

It's an interesting question because there are certainly a few people. One of the people that I feel has had the most impact on me is actually my first chaplain at university. He actually passed away in my final year and that's what led me to re-find my faith or find my faith in the first place. I had him through my 1st and second year of university. Within a few weeks of me starting my final and 4th year, he fell ill and sadly passed away. He was, of course, a really great chaplain, but it was really, and I hate to say, it was him passing away that I feel had a great deal of impact on my life because he was a Franciscan friar, a priest. I remember hearing the news and thinking about it for a couple of weeks. And all I kept thinking about was how this person could dedicate his entire life to what he believed in to the point where, you know, he'd taken vows of poverty, and he didn't even own a mobile phone. Those kinds of thoughts kept going round and round in my head. And I thought he could do all of this. He could dedicate his life to God and to serving others. And, you know, I can't even pray every single day. I feel like that had such a huge impact, and it was like the first kind of turning point for me that maybe I should dig a bit deeper. Maybe it's not all about just saying the responses at Mass. Maybe it's not saying to people, I'm a Catholic, and then not actually knowing what that means and not trying to dive into what that means too. I think I could safely say that my first university chaplain, Father Tom Herbst, he's had the most impact on my life. 

That's a great testimony to his life and his good death, isn't it? That's really beautiful. Thank you. So may we look ahead a little bit then. Are there things that are a struggle that at the moment you're thinking, well, I'm not quite sure where this is going, Lord? Are there things that are, that are a struggle despite trying to have a prayer life and read the scriptures meaningfully? 

Yeah. I mean, there's a great deal. One of the struggles I have at the moment, it's interesting working for 2 Catholic organisations. Because working as an administrator, which is what I do for both of them, you kind of become a bit too bogged down in the day to day sort of business of it. It all becomes, I don't quite know the word I'm looking for, but the word that's coming up to me is sort of utilitarian. Like, it's very utility focused. It's how do we move these resources to here. Yeah. You get kind of too bogged down in business that you lose sight of actually what it's all about, who or what you're doing it for. You lose focus. You lose sight. It becomes too easy to lose that relationship almost or to lose sight of the relationship that you have with God because you get so focused on the work, the goal of the work, the day to day tasks that you forget that there is a kingdom, that you're doing this almost as a vocation. God is calling us to do good work. Yeah. Sometimes it just becomes too much about writing emails. It becomes quite difficult to maintain yourself centered in prayer. And I think those are the real moments when you feel far away from God. That's when you need to be closest to him, when you really need to try so hard to remind yourself and to reflect on what you're doing, why you're doing it, and who it's for. Yeah. I think that's really insightful actually, Michael, because I think listeners who maybe aren't working in a faith environment might imagine that if you are, you're deeply feeling your relationship with God and, you know, living your faith in your work. And that's been my experience too. I particularly remember years ago when I went to teach my first proper job, I was teaching in a Catholic primary school. And I thought I had landed in heaven working in a Catholic primary school. I thought this is, it's gonna be all about God. It's gonna be all about the church. It's gonna be brilliant. And of course, it was really hard.

Yeah. I'm so glad it's not just me. 

A lot of it was stuff that was not about my faith or the faith of the children or the church. It was just admin, drudgery stuff. And even I can remember I had a colleague who was in the classroom next to me who was also new to the school and she had come from a state school where this was my first job. And when it was school Mass time, we were saying, Isn't this fantastic? We can go to Mass at work. How amazing. And of course, being in there at Mass with all the children because we were having to, you know, have eyes everywhere, managing the children in Mass. It wasn't in the least bits a spiritual experience for us.  It was really tough going. Yeah. There's much there that would be interesting for listeners, you know, who are working in a faith environment and can recognise what you're talking about and people who aren't and perhaps have had a rosy eyed view of what it might be like. 

Like you, this was that was what I was thinking going into my role at Million Minutes that, you know, I'd come from my sort of close knit Catholic society community that I was gonna go into a Catholic job, and it was gonna be, like, almost exactly the same. But, actually, although, of course, I've worked with Catholics, as you say like that, you get too focused on the drudgery.

Okay. Let's cheer ourselves up a little bit now. And what about for the future? I've spoken to people on the podcast who are very much living in the moment in their faith. And other people who are kind of looking ahead and trying to see the path. I wonder, do you feel like the path is just under your feet or are you looking ahead to where it might be leading? 

It's an interesting question because I've considered this myself. I am a person that tends to just sort of, most of the time, live in the moment, take it day by day. But I also think that having been in a long term relationship and, obviously, as I say, having recently been engaged, I am now having to look towards the future and what's in store for me. You can't really know what God has for you. I think there's something beautiful about that in a way that as God has said through the scripture that he only desires good for us. And so regardless of what's in store for you, what's coming next, you know that God intends good to come from it. I am looking forward now, but I'm looking forward with faith. I'm not looking forward worrying. I'm just trusting in God. I suppose that in a way that's still taking it day by day. 

Mhmm. And I sometimes ask people also about whether there's a Mass that has been really important to you, that you can look back and think, I'm glad I was at that Mass because that has stayed with me.

I think the one Mass that has really stayed with me in recent memory actually occurred on Ash Wednesday last year. This was this was not long after I had decided to make more of an effort with my faith. This was at university. We're in the chapel, and it came time for communion. And the priest said, as he was about to invite people to come up for communion, he mentioned if you haven't been to confession in a while, something along the lines of, I would advise you come to confession before taking communion. But it was quite, you know, your average parish priest wouldn't say that. But because it was such an intimate environment and it was with my Catholic society, he obviously felt more able to ask that question. Hearing that, it was very eye opening for me because I had considered for a long time confession to be, like, just something that really, really, really devout people do. That there was no kind of relation to confession and receiving communion whatsoever. And I ended up not receiving communion that day because I realised because I was sat quite far back, so I had a lot of time to think about this. It made me realise that I hadn't been to confession in about 3 years. And even then, that confession was done as part of the course I was doing to be confirmed. It was sort of obligatory. I didn't treat it with the right respect that I should have done. And that was the Mass where things started to become a bit clearer for me. And there's various moments like that in my faith journey where the pieces of the puzzle were slowly starting to come down, and I'm it's like trying to build a puzzle without the box in front of you. You can't see what it's supposed to look like, and you just have to figure out what pieces go where. So it's difficult, but it's the most beautiful puzzle that you're ever gonna see. 

Thank you, Michael. That's really interesting. When you first were saying what the priest said, I was thinking some people would find that -  Don't, don't say that to young people. Don't put off young people. But actually, challenge from somebody who has a good relationship with those young people can lead to growth, can't it? It can be really helpful. 

Absolutely. And I don't think he would have said that if he didn't already have that relationship with us. And I'm so grateful that he did have that relationship.

Yeah. That's very powerful. So that was at university. Now you mentioned you're going to Mass with your mom at the weekend. So are you part of a parish now? Do you play a role in the life of the parish? 

I would say I play a small role in the life of the parish. I'm one of the altar servers that we have. So if you come to visit us for whatever reason, you will see me most likely up on the altar in my white alb. I also do a bit here and there with the small group of young people we have in the parish, our most recent confirmation group, trying to engage them. I certainly feel as if my role in the parish is a smaller one than a lot of people because there are so many people in the parish that do a lot more than I do. I serve on the altar. Even if I wasn't there, the parish priest could still say Mass. It just makes it a bit easier for him. 

Well, that's you being modest, Michael, because a young adult who can inspire other young people in the parish and walk alongside them, I think is hugely valuable to the life in the parish community.

Well, thank you. Again, you can sometimes get bogged down in the drudgery. 

Exactly. Okay. I think we're drawing to a close. Listen, that's been really interesting, Michael. There's lots there that will resonate with people and provide some, some hope, I think, for the future. So thank you so much, and congratulations on your engagement also. And myself and listeners wish you well. 

Well, thank you very much, Theresa, for having me on the show. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. 

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow All Kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms. 

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