25: It's an adventure. That's why it's a bit scary.

Episode 25: Amy explains how she tries to live her faith today as something real. Her mother used to 'put me to bed at night and kiss me good night and say, Remember that you were baptised priest, prophet, and king.' Amy reflects on how our compassion for others is really about letting Christ be in charge.



Find out more
National Board of Catholic Women
Adventurous Accompaniment at Million Minutes

A new episode, a different conversation, every Wednesday!
Email me: theresa@KindsofCatholic.co.uk
Facebook and X/Twitter Give me a follow @KindsofCatholic
Find the transcript: https://kindsofcatholic.buzzsprout.com

Music: Greenleaves from Audionautix.com

Transcript

You are listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways, we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together. On a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations. 

So listeners, I'm joined today by Amy from Hexham and Newcastle Diocese, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Hi Amy.

Hello. Lovely to have this time with you. 

So often, Amy, I look back and see where people began. Let's dive straight into, how did you come into the world then? Have you been a Catholic from the beginning of your life?

Yeah. Very much so. I was born to two parents that had been studying theology during Vatican II, and so they were incredibly enthusiastic about all things Vatican II. So my early childhood was around really living out the promises that Vatican II had given us. So probably wasn't that normal, I've realised over the years, but we were part of a really vibrant parish community where there was an awful lot of lay involvement. My mam was an evangelist, which I didn't realise. She definitely had a charism for being an evangeliser, so anybody that came in our house ended up talking about Jesus, usually over a glass of wine, but very much growing up in this culture of being an extension of the church in our home. We lived opposite the church.  So the door was always open. People would pop in, and we I got to witness really people's authentic faith. My mam would put me to bed at night and kiss me good night and say, remember that you were baptised priest, prophet, and king. And there was this mantra that was just part of my identity, I think, from very early on. 

Wow. That's beautiful. That's amazing to see how Vatican II was bearing fruit there in in your family and in your life since. So you've captured there how it began. Has your faith been strong throughout your life? Have you had little wobbles? 

I wouldn't say wobbles. I think certainly in my early teens. One of the things that I think my parents did well was to take us, to expose us, to lots of different examples of church and particularly going on pilgrimage. I remember as an early teen, that was a turning point for me where I thought, actually, this isn't just a nice thing that we're living and doing. This is something really real, and this is about relationship. And I think from my early teens onwards, I had this real sense of connection with Christ and calling that actually were called to serve, that, you know, this faith was also about living out a vocation. 

That's really interesting. I think lots of people have spoken on the podcast about those early teen years and how, you know, it's been a turning point in different ways. You've pointed out there how useful it was the way your parents’ approach giving you different examples of church and that pilgrimage turned out to be something useful for you. Have you got any other advice for parents who are - I mean, I've been there myself, it's too late now - parents who have children approaching those teenage years, what kind of things do you think are helpful and not helpful? And maybe some of this also reflects the role that you're in now, which we'll get to in a minute, but just from speaking from your experience. 

Yeah. So I've got 3 teenage daughters. All very different as, you know, any parent recognises that, you know, do the same thing, but you get different outcomes. And I think for them, it's very much been about keeping this real, making sure that you talk about your faith. I mean, I don't think I have a charism for evangelisation as my mother did. My gifts are different. But what I hope my children have witnessed is me kind of wrestling with my faith, being honest about it. You know, when there are things that are challenging that we're not sure, not sure what I think about that, and being able to have those conversations around the dinner table. I do think the culture of being around the dinner table helps because you have different conversations. I've made sure that my, again, I've taken my children to places where they've seen different ways of being church. So for them, it's really helped when I've taken them to big events, and they've seen that they're not on their own. I think it can be really difficult even in the Catholic school system to find other Catholics, and we've certainly made friends with other Catholic families. And even if they only see each other once a year, they know that there's other children being brought up like this, with this kind of set of values and this way of doing things. I haven't really shied away with my children from being honest about the challenges I find in the church. I think they need to know it's real and it isn't something that can't be questioned. I used to teach, philosophy and ethics at secondary school, and part of that was critical thinking. And I love that being a Catholic allows you and enables and empowers you to actually think critically about your faith. We've got a conscience. We're meant to be using our brains. It's not just blind faith. And so to try and get them to engage with that. All of my children have found faith in their own way, which is down to God. I think not anything I'm doing. We're putting them in places where they're around authentic faith, people who are taught about their faith. Yes. But exposing them to things like exposition. Also, in our family, we've had a big culture that faith is fun, that actually it's to be enjoyed. There's a joy in it rather than it be a burden. It's meant to be a real blessing. So I'm not sure I've given you any advice. 

No. I think that's fantastic. I think that's really solid advice. Yes. And I think I've often heard young people and I felt it myself, but not necessarily when I'm young, but at different times, you know, that just being in a group or being at an event where there are lots and lots of Catholic people who share our values feels great, doesn't it? It really helps you feel that you're like you say, you're not alone. And I think that probably is even more important for young people who so readily feel, you know, different from others in a way that makes them feel isolated and not want to follow that path. 

And I think turning to prayer, you know, when life is difficult, modelling that for them, encouraging them to turn and pray when things are difficult and having family prayer time. I mean, the family prayer time can be quite raucous over the years. We gotta start with, you know, just being together and giving it to the turns to speak, to pray, to express what's going on for them. Often, we'll kind of end up just laughing, but, you know, just kind of coming together to try and just live your life with Christ as part of your family.

Now that reminds me about family prayer. A friend of mine, when her children were going through the First Communion programme, they were encouraged to try and have a little time of family prayer and light a candle. And she said it was all about who's going to blow out the candle. Yeah. They couldn't do anything because everybody's thinking, I want to blow out the candle. Not him, not her. It's my turn. 

Absolutely. 

Okay. I can kinda see now a little thread leading through to the role you're doing now, but tell us a bit about your teaching first. How did you come to be teaching? 

So I did a degree in theology and music thinking I was gonna be a musician. Quite quickly realised that wasn't what I felt God was calling me to do, and I ended up volunteering for it and, like, doing a gap year for a youth service called the youth mission team, Youth Ministry Team, which is still going in the diocese. And through that, went into schools. So I spent 2 years doing that. Met my husband there, so that was wonderful, living in community and having that start to our relationship. But going in and out of school, I thought, actually, there's no sustained formation going on. You're just dropping a seed and then coming away, and I just felt called for that. So, I started teaching RE, religious education in a secondary school, and I did that for about 14 years and did various different roles. In In many ways, I was just very successful at that. You know, there was nothing wrong with what I was doing, but just felt that there was a bit of hole that God was pulling me somewhere else. It's quite a difficult decision to leave because I was, you know, externally doing everything right, but it just felt internally that there was there was something different that was for me. Somebody once described it, like, I think, is it an eagle that rearranges their nests in order that the babies leave? It becomes uncomfortable, and it just became uncomfortable without being able to actually pinpoint why it should be. And then there came this call from the altar on Sunday that the diocese was trying to go through a process of renewal, and it was looking to develop the laity. How can we develop leadership within the laity? Because the way the church is going, it's gonna need it increasingly due to the demographics. And it just felt like something stabs me in the heart. This is it. This is the thing. It was a real prompt. So I started, I applied for that job, and that was 8 years ago, and I've worked for the diocese since. 

I can see the courage needed to leave the school because in some ways, Catholic education, you know, we're calling out for more teachers, and here's a committed Catholic doing a really good job teaching. Oh, it must have felt very strange to step away.

It did. It did. And I don't think you would logically sit and come to that. I think it really was a call from God. 

And how have you found the role? What gets you up in the morning, as they say, around this work then?

I love the fact it can be just so Spirit-led. Like, I start every day out in the woods walking the dogs, praying, saying, what is it I need to do to serve you today, God? And unlike teaching, I've got much more freedom of what that looks like. I mean, my days are incredibly busy and can be very long, but I shape it. So I go where I feel the Spirit's leading me, and it's remarkable when you kinda put yourself in that most vulnerable place of of God kinda leading how much the doors open, you know, the emails come at the right time, the phone rings at the right time, somebody walks in with the right bit of information, and it just often feels like God is really leading this work. And it's massively challenging because we're trying to change a culture. We're trying to galvanise people who often don't wanna be galvanised, change people who are quite set in their ways. So it's not the easiest of work, but I just feel protected within it. I feel like the Spirit's got me covered. And we're moving ground very slowly, but we're moving ground.

Well, I wish you well in that work, and I'm sure listeners do too. And I recognise, and I hope listeners will too, you know, when I'm doing something that I feel I've been called to do, which I have with this podcast actually, I do feel that people approach me that that I just needed to meet or hear from. Sometimes the questions that I ask people, I think, oh, I didn't know that was going to lead to this really interesting bit of a conversation. You know, Thank you, Lord, for putting that in my mind. Yeah, I think that it's a great privilege, isn't it, when you can feel that you're doing what, the work the Lord's called you to?

Absolutely. 

But of course not to not to neglect that regular prayer. 

Yeah. And so much of this work, you just think I can't do this actually. You know, it I literally can't do this. I can only be a faithful servant each day to whatever bit of the jigsaw I'm contributing to. 

Now while we're talking, Amy, my eye is caught by that beautiful painting on the wall behind you, the one where Jesus is reaching out to someone I can't see so clearly, but tell us about that image. 

Yeah. So that's, the woman with the haemorrhage, and Jesus is reaching out. Really interesting image. You’re gonna ask about the who the artist is, and I've forgotten. But, yeah, it's got the Holy Spirit there. But the kind of people around about, who I presume are the Jews at the time almost have a soldier-like quality to them. It’s what  drew me to the image. There's the harshness of the society and then the compassion within Christ. Yeah. And I do feel that that is part of our role in the church, is to be that presence, bring that compassion. I’m very motivated, have done  quite a lot of research and work, over the last couple of years around accompaniment, how do we walk side by side with one another in the messiness. And it's beautiful work. It's something I totally fell into by accident during COVID. I'd seen a survey online, and I was invited to be part of a of the research group working with Million Minutes, funded through the Jesuits, looking at what does Pope Francis really mean when he talks about accompanying. And we did some kind of background research into, what do people understand he means and what does that look like, and how actually we're using the word in so many different ways. And there's actually a lot of meanings floating around, so we tried to look at what would Pope Francis really understand by it. And it came to that place of compassion. Actually, a lot of the time, people think they're accompanying, but they're actually prescribing what people should do. And, actually, the compassionate approach is to actually let Christ be in charge and to help people to see the Christ's authority at work within themselves. We're not externally putting something on them. We're inviting whatever’s within to be awakened. So we call that Adventurous Accompaniment to try and distinguish it from the other the other ways the word's being used. But I do think that's a a good title for a lot of what our journey is. We're all on an adventure. We're not in control. We really don't even know the destination. We just got to step by step trust that Christ is with us and we can be with one another to kinda make that difference and move forward wherever Christ has taken us. 

Yeah. I like that adventurous accompaniment and calling it an adventure. I often use the word journey, but adventure is better. 

Sounds a bit more positive. Like, it's an adventure. That's why it's a bit scary. 

Yes. Exactly. Now you mentioned right at the beginning that Vatican II was important to your parents and shaped your childhood in a way. Now you've been involved in this research, understanding what Pope Francis means by accompaniment. And I'm wondering about the synod now, about how that is impacting on your work and what difference it's making, the work that Pope Francis is doing to change the way we work together as a church. 

Yeah. So I've been really excited by the synod. It just feels so right for this time that we're actually having these conversations. It massively just reiterates Vatican II principles. You know, it just try to bring home what hasn't been enabled of the dream of Vatican II. From a practical point of view, like many things that come out of Rome, you get very little notice that something's coming and it suddenly just changes your job entirely.  So to try and get a whole diocese in a very short space of time to respond in a way that isn't like a survey, but is actually accompaniment, going in, listening, being open to where the Spirit's already at work within the communities. So it was a big challenge and a good one. In our diocese, because we'd had this process of renewal, we'd already been out to consultation and gathered tens of thousands of bits of information back from a listening process. So I was quite hard to go back again, and I think that is the danger of this way of, you need to keep listening. You need to keep talking, but you also need to have action and results. And I think whenever you start asking people their opinions, their hopes are raised, that what they hope for, what they communicate will be enacted, and that's not really, I think, the purpose. The purpose is to actually get us talking, get us listening. So, yeah, it was quite tricky to do it within this diocese because it's like, oh, we're coming back again and we're asking questions again, but we haven't enacted the last lot. But still, we haven't learned enough about how to listen, and there's a huge amount to unpack with this synod. But I do think people's expectations are raised, and I do think there'll be disappointments inevitably. I was lucky enough to be part of the European stage of the synod through my role with the National Board of Catholic Women. And that was just fascinating, just to see the east and west of Europe and the different way that the countries and the bishops’ conferences are responding to their culture at the time and where the Spirit’s at work. It just, it highlighted to me the difficulty the church has got because there's such difference. But what was beautiful was, the difference was in the room, listening to one another, and that's where the movement's been in terms of the Spirit, I think. 

That's really helpful, Amy. I'm interested in what you're saying about people's expectations being raised because there's so much in our Western world where there's a survey and then you get the, you said, we did, kind of response. Okay. You said you needed this, so we've done that. You said you needed this, so we've done that. And it is quite surface level, actually. I suppose people therefore think that this is what it's going to be like. But I was just thinking to myself when you said there's so much to unpack about the Synod, that Vatican II, all those years ago, we are still unpacking. And maybe we need to have a head that recognises this is something that isn't going to be all sorted next year with the big changes that are in one person's heart happening. That actually this is something that's going to take many, many years of change. 

Yeah. I don't think we're fully clear on what it should look like. You know, we are in kind of knots, in lots of ways, and it's very difficult to say to, you know, a divorced woman or a mother of a gay child that this is where the church is at, because it directly hits their heart. You know, some people might be sitting in a room having an intellectual conversation about this, but at the same time, you've got people who are really broken by, you know, the teachings of the church. And it's how do we compassionately walk with them and walk with one another when we’re so opposed to different views. It's really challenging, and it's really personal. 

Yeah. Absolutely. And I do think those are things, you know, in my lifetime, I can see the church did not listen to the voices of people who were broken by some of those teachings. And I think that is something that is changing. 

Mhmm. Mhmm.

I think that's what I'm seeing, and I think that's a really positive thing. 

Yeah. And if that is the stance the church takes, it has to accept the consequences of that teaching upon believers. 

Feels a little gloomy, but it isn't meant to be. It's meant I think, it's meant to be, as you were saying before, it's meant to be real, you know, this is what the struggle's about.

It's the authentic walk of our faith. It's getting the authenticity, and that's why I love accompaniment because you can walk alongside difference. 

Yes. 

You can walk with people even if you disagree in what they're doing or they're fundamentally in your mind doing something wrong, you know, like Jesus did on the road to Emmaus. He walked with the disciples in the wrong direction and listened to them while they told him all about himself. The ultimate letting go of any sense of your own ego and purpose in this. It's about, you know, being truly there to serve. 

So tell us a bit more about your role at the National Board of Catholic Women then, speaking of serving. 

So I took on the presidency of this about 2 years ago. The organisation was set up in 1938 to try and hold together different women's groups because there were so many popping up to try and get them a bit more unified. Over the years, there's been just amazing work done by fabulous women. Through this organisation, I've met so many amazing Catholic women, but my role over the last 2 years has been to try and get it to look within itself again and say, Okay, there's not so many women's groups, and there's not so many membership within those groups. How does an umbrella body like that function today and what's needed? And so we've been through a process of reviewing ourselves, looking at the synod themes of participation, communion, and mission, and how can women be more in communion with one another? How can they participate more in building the kingdom? And how can we advocate for the mission of Christ? How can we advocate on behalf of women who are usually, more negatively affected by war, violence, poverty. It's been a really interesting journey for me. It's been a massive challenge, in terms of skills, been completely new. But just to meet such fabulous, dedicated women and, you know, I've got a real heart for the spirituality of women and how women can walk with one another in a way that's different. I think you gotta celebrate men as well, but there's a difference there and it's both and isn't it? We need to celebrate all the different spiritualities. Women walking with women is a really powerful part of our faith. Certainly, I lost my own mother in my early twenties, and it was older women that I met on retreat that prayed with me, that sat with me, that really healed me. You know, those, I've kind of adopted mothers in all sorts of different way of being motherly to one another, in the absence of a mother being there. When I became a mother, for example, you kinda reach out, and other people fill that gap. So, yeah, I've got a real heart for making sure women are seen and heard and can have their part to play. Women are running the church in many places physically. Yeah. I don't have a particular agenda to push for women. I want to hold the difference of views that people hold about women, and the organisation does that. It doesn't fight for particular direction. Let's bring women together to be in communion with one another and to network and mentor and support one another. 

Okay. That sounds great. And I'll put a link to the website for the National Board of Catholic Women in the episode notes so people can have a closer look if they want to. Fantastic. You've given us some little glimpses into your personal faith, you know, with your prayers in the morning while you're walking the dog, and the importance of other people in supporting you in your faith. I wonder if we can just dig a little deeper. Are there prayers that are important to you, or a way of praying? Are there practices that support your faith? Is there a liturgy that you really choose over others? What does that look like for you? 

Yeah. I think it's a bit of a pick and mix. To be fair, I think I've moved around so much at different times. I really felt that at one point I was really into Our Lady. I just felt that that was kind of the thing that was sustaining me, but I felt that Mary pointed me to Christ, and so I moved from the rosary into exposition and adoration. I still got an awful lot from just sitting before the Blessed Sacrament. But, again, I think Christ pointed me to God, and it is kinda keeping that movement. So I haven't lost those other things, but I think more recently it used to be really built up by kind of worship music and loud stuff. I think that was an age thing. I think as your actual life gets louder, I'm really appreciating silence and meditation. I did an awful lot of meditation with sixth formers. You know, at one point, I had 350 sixth formers meditating in assemblies in the morning. Not sure how many were actually doing it, but, you know, the invitation was there, and they were very respectful. Quite a number would come and say that this affected them positively. So, yeah, silence is really important. Adoration. I listen to Pray as You Go most mornings. I love the Ignatian thing, the Examen, to be able to stop, try and stop and reflect, you know, 2 or 3 times a day. Quite often under my breath, I'm just saying, Come Holy Spirit. I don't know what I'm doing. Come Holy Spirit. Give me the next bit that I need to do. There's all sorts of different things that really feed me, but I think they're the things that I keep going back to. Community prayer is really important. It's just quite hard to find. 

Do you belong to a parish? Well, I'm sure you do belong to a parish. What I meant really was, are you involved in the life of the parish as well as all the other things you're doing? 

Yeah. I've got a fabulous parish, and I really feel God gave me this parish. I moved into the area when I took this job on, and I feel like the parish came with the job as a bit of a blessing to keep me going. So I'm involved in the music ministry. Got a great youth music ministry, which is brilliant. We have a youth group. We have loads of events. Actually, we have loads of children coming, and we do very basic, simple down to earth things, but it works. A wonderful community of support there. Yeah. And that does really feed me, that community. I think community is really important to me, and I think it's been really important to the family. We have fun together as a parish. We really do.

Oh, that sounds great. So listen, Amy, it's been really fantastic talking to you today. You've given such a lot of really thoughtful reflections on what's coming out of the Vatican and, and how your life has been changed by being brought up in a house where Vatican II really meant something and where the Lord is guiding you in your life up to now, and we look forward to a future too. So thanks so much for making some time to share all those thoughts with us. I think people will find a lot there to reflect on in their own lives and in in their own faith journey or indeed faith adventure.

And thank you. Thank you for arranging this. I do think hearing people's faith stories really does keep people going, so absolute gift to the church. Thank you. 

Oh, thank you, Amy.

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow All Kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms. Rate and review to help others find it.

And follow our X, Twitter and Facebook accounts, @KindsofCatholic. You can comment on episodes and be part of the dialogue there. You can also text me if you're listening to the podcast on your phone, although I won't be able to reply to those texts. Until the next time.