37:Let's give that Jesus a try again

Episode 37: Greg shares how his childhood love for Jesus has grown, 'gradually, slowly,' into a mission to share the Gospel with children and young people. He explains his journey from 'my heart was almost beating out of my chest' to being able to communicate his love for Jesus with confidence. 

Find out more:
Mark 10 Mission
Good Shepherd Catechesis

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Transcript

You're listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we're living our faith today. Pope Francis has used the image of a caravan. A diverse group of people travelling together, on a sometimes chaotic journey together. That's an image that has helped to shape this podcast. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged at times. I am too in these conversations. Thanks for joining me today, listeners. 

We're gonna have a really good conversation with Greg, who is in the Leeds diocese. Welcome, Greg. 

Hi. How are you doing, Theresa? 

We're gonna talk about your work, your mission, Greg, but let's just turn the clock back a little bit and start with when you were tiny. Were you born into a Catholic family? Have you been a Catholic from the beginning? 

I was certainly born into a Catholic family. I'm from Halifax in West Yorkshire. Yes. My dad is a practising Catholic. My paternal grandmother, a very devout lady and strong Catholic. And, yeah, that was something I did every Sunday. My dad would take me and my brothers along to Mass and went to a Catholic primary school. Definitely raised in a Catholic family.

And was your faith important to you as a child, or is that something that came later? 

I think it was. Yes. I think back to when I was at primary school and I sometimes say to teachers as I travel around the country, which is part of my work that we'll speak about, I say to them, when I was eight, nine years old, I was in love with Jesus. There was no doubt in my mind that he was he was who he says he is, and I used to like looking at the children's bible that I had at home and looking at the pictures and marvelling at this wonderful miracle-working man who was also my friend, who I could speak to when I was on my own, and I could pray. And yeah, I loved my faith. I'm not sure I loved going to Mass, right, When can we get to the end and when can I go in the parish hall and have a biscuit or two? I liked being a Catholic. I liked going to my school and I enjoyed my faith certainly as a primary school child.

And was that path smooth then through to adulthood? Did your faith mature smoothly or were there some wobbly bits along the way? 

Even though I went to a secular school, I went to the grammar school in Halifax, but I still remember at 13 being adamant that I wanted to make my confirmation - went back to the parish and did that. Just like many teenagers, some other things got in the way. I liked playing my sport, my football, my cricket, and perhaps the relevance of God in my life wasn't really clear. I don't think I ever lost belief that God existed, but his relevance and his closeness to my life was something that I didn't see. I think I was poorly formed, to be honest. I had primary school faith and perhaps when some of the bigger challenges came, particularly around university and early adulthood, some relationships breaking down or just difficulties in life, I wasn't well enough formed to think, right, I can turn to the Lord in prayer and he can guide me through. I think I was just a bit like, right, I've got to do this myself. Even though I'd been to Catholic school, I'd been taken to Mass, I didn't really know much.

And so that's quite interesting when we look at where you are now and what you're doing. So let's just fast forward a little bit and tell us about how your project began. And what's the inspiration for it? 

Yeah. I think maybe the first port of call would be when I was about 24, 25. My life was at something of a dead end. I'd come out of university, not really working in a job that I particularly liked. I got to a point where I was like, gosh. I've tried finding fulfilment in all the places the world tells me I can find it. Let's give that Jesus a try again. I remembered when I was at my happiest, actually, it was at primary school, and I thought I'm gonna go back to Mass. So I went back when I was 24. My dad was still going to Mass every week, so I was able to slide back in next to him. And I also thought, well, maybe why don't I do something good with my life? I could be a teacher. I've got my confirmation certificate. I'll be a Catholic teacher. And so I did, and I started working at Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Primary School in Huddersfield. And for the next five years I just ticked along going to Mass with my dad, working in the school. The Lord was gradually, slowly just bringing me closer. I was falling in love with the Catholic faith. In 2017, I was invited to a prayer group in Bradford where I met the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal. I'm really lucky that we have such an amazing religious community about five miles from where I live. And for the first time in my life, I saw some men of my age, or slightly older some of them, who were living out the gospel radically. I've probably been going to Mass for five years or so thinking, this is great. I love hearing all these gospel stories and trying to pray and grow in that and teaching the children about it. But in terms of it actually being a lived experience in my life, I'm not sure that's possible in 2017 to make these decisions. But then I saw these friars who had given up their bank account, they'd given up any thought of marriage, they had to ask for permission for everything that they did, and yet they were glowing with happiness. And it just didn't compute. I was so confused. How are you so happy when the world says that you've got nothing? Thanks be to God, I was able to go along every Friday to a prayer group. They became my friends, and I learned a lot. I think my formation journey really started to begin there. Some great guys who walked alongside me, but also said, No, you need to learn your faith. That sort of took me to a point in 2020, and we had the lockdown. Through that period, I was in my classroom teaching a small group of children whose parents were key workers. But in September, all the children are gonna come back, but they're going to be in bubbles. We're not going to have whole school gatherings. So I thought, gosh, how can I make sure that these children in my class, in my school - I was a leading RE at the time - how can I make sure that they still hear the gospel? Because I knew that my colleagues, the other teachers in our school, were not Catholic, not practising Catholic. Although really good teachers and well meaning, they were low on confidence when it came to leading prayer and breaking open the Word of God. So I thought I'll make some videos, and I'll get those friends of mine, the Friars, to help me. And I shared this idea with a few people that we're gonna make some videos to show the children the Sunday gospel, help them to pray, sing a song. Some big things happen from there, should we say.

That's amazing. I just want to go back to - I think it's really interesting that the Franciscans welcomed you and you shared in their prayer time and then they just challenged you a little bit. I often hear that from guests that sometimes we can think that it's a wonderful thing to be a Catholic, you know, we are supported by our faith, but actually that challenge is sometimes the thing that really matters, that really helps us to grow. Actually for listeners, this episode follows on well from last week where we spoke to somebody who had been a Poor Clare for a while, and I look back to Saint Francis, the fruit of his life's work is still blooming, whatever the verb is there, it's still continuing all these hundreds of years later because the Lord really blessed his work. So that's amazing to hear about, that the Franciscans are continuing to have such an influence, and also that COVID has been an opportunity to reset things, and for some people the beginning of something new and better. So tell us then how your early foray into making videos that share the gospel, how that has blossomed. 

Well, I remember in August 2020, we decided we were going to make some videos. And at this stage, I think we had 17 of the Catholic dioceses in England and Wales waiting for these videos. I'd made a lot of phone calls and emails and said I'm gonna make them. It’s the last week of August 2020, and we filmed on a couple of iPhones, and the quality was terrible. I remember the sound quality. It was horrible. But we got some better equipment, better cameras, and we filmed six videos about fifteen minutes in length. And schools watched. They shared them on their interactive whiteboards. And although it was a time where we couldn't go into schools, they were sending us images on social media of children gathering around watching us, which was great. And so we thought, wow, we better make some more. And we went on a journey through that crazy year in education of 2020/2021 where we were in and out of lockdowns and bubbles, and we created a year of content. And then when we came out of the lockdown, we thought, well, there's still a need here. There's still many teachers who this is benefiting because they're seeing an act of prayer modelled for them that then they hopefully can recreate. Children have been blessed. We're leading them in prayer. Perhaps leading them in prayer in a way that they hadn't seen before. I think that's maybe we can talk a little bit more about that. We went for two years and I thought the Lord is opening so many doors. I was still teaching at the time, and I really wanted to just make the very best of what we were doing. And so after two years of the Mark 10 Mission - I didn't mention that, that's what it's called the Mark 10 Mission. After two years of the Mark 10 Mission going so well, I decided to make the step to come out of teaching. Even though I loved it, didn't have a wage guaranteed at that time or anything. I just sort of thought, right, the Lord has blessed this so far. I've got some savings. I'm gonna take a bit of a step. I'm now three years into that journey where we're making three videos now every week. One for Key Stage one, one for Key Stage two, and now one for secondary school. And thanks be to God, we have about a hundred thousand children and young people watching the videos every week. 

Wow.

Which is wonderful. And I'm able to go around the country. I step into schools 200 miles from home, and they're shouting my name, which is very humbling. Gosh. It's embarrassing almost. But they're excited, yeah, to see me and some of the other team members as well who are in the videos because I don't do it alone. I have the Franciscans still involved and the Franciscan Sisters and some of amazing lay people as well who help me out with them. It's been an amazing journey and hopefully, please God, we're just getting started. 

Well, that is quite some power there, a hundred thousand children being touched by your work. You mentioned there about the way of praying that you think is different. Tell us what that looks like then. 

Well, I strongly believe that we need to prioritise an experience of the Lord's presence over intellectual formation. For those listeners who maybe don't know, there's some wonderful safeguards in place for Catholic education in terms of what we're able to do in Catholic schools. We have to have 10% of time dedicated to teaching Catholic RE. Some safeguards around – Right, we pray in school, and we have Mass a couple of times a term, but also throughout the week. Every day there should be prayer going on. But I've really tried to say, if we want young people to really follow their faith into adulthood, I think we need to give them experiences of the Lord's presence. We need to help them realise that he is alive. He's not just some ideas that they learn about in their RE lessons. And so we try and create space for that. We try and open up the gospel in a way that isn't just teaching them the context or perhaps what we think they should take from it. We ask them, what have you heard in the gospel today? What is the Lord saying to your heart today? And then perhaps asking them some questions. I particularly love to ask questions of wonder. I wonder how Jesus's face looked as he spoke those words in the gospel today. This coming Sunday, I wonder how the fishermen felt when they saw the net so full of fish. And questions like that that allow the children to contemplate, to think about the scriptures, and just like Our Lady, treasure them in their hearts, that's really an inspiration for me. I want to help children ponder the scriptures and also be struck by awe and wonder. Pope Francis talks about rekindling wonder, particularly when he talks about prayer in schools. We combine that with, we always share actual scripture. We share the Sunday gospel even with the youngest children. Sometimes we might abridge it, but I believe strongly that the Word of God is the best thing that we share in the videos, no matter how good we are or how good the song is that we sing at the end. And yet to then also combine that with beautiful symbols. I've done some study and done some work myself with the Dominican Sisters over in Ireland, something called Catechesis of the Good Shepherd, which is very popular in America. But it's a beautiful method. Draws up from Montessori. A couple of wonderful ladies called Dr Sofia Caveletti and Gianna Gobi took Montessori's work and said, How can we help children encounter Jesus? And they spent fifty years finding the best ways, the best scriptures, and they particularly liked a language of signs. So this is using things like icons, things like beautiful artwork, or even just the chalice, the patten, the pouring of water, dipping fingers in oil to show anointing, statues, rosaries, incense. It's all these beautiful things that I've really tried to use to welcome children into the scriptures, for them to look as well as listen, to help even the children who may be at a lower level of development - so they can't really enter into the scriptures, but perhaps they can see a statue of a good shepherd and some sheep, and they understand that Jesus is the Good Shepherd because they can see the statue or the symbols. So that's really my method, it’s sharing actual scripture and then inviting children into wonder through use of signs and through use of questions of wonder, and then giving them space, silence for them to listen to the voice of the Lord and let the Holy Spirit really guide the process. I think that's something I say to teachers. You're just a facilitator. You just say a few things and then get out the way. And let the Holy Spirit take over. He's the one that's gonna lead, the one that's gonna create those amazing moments of encounter, and it looks different to working with the teenagers. 

We'll talk about the teenagers separately because I think that'll be of interest to people. I can hear something so very Catholic about those signs and statues and the practices of our faith, and I think there's something wonderful about drawing children into that alongside the gospel reading. I think that really places them in the church and helps them to feel that it's a familiar place and that they recognise this faith that they're growing up in. So that sounds really amazing. And also smart, you know, to think about what actually has been effective in other areas and can really help draw children into encountering Jesus, sharing the faith. But tell us a little bit about the teenagers then because I think there's a perception isn't there? that this is a particularly difficult age and that this is where things can fall off the edges. So what do you find is working with this age group?

I mean, the first thing to say is primary schools, they are so open. You go in and the children are so open. They love to pray. And at five past nine, I can lead a whole school assembly, and I'll say, let us pray. And the vast, vast majority of the children will close their eyes, join their hands, and, they run with you. And we've had amazing joy sharing the gospel in primary schools. But it really was a prayer on my heart. How do we help the secondary school students? I was hearing lots from friends who had teenagers who were saying, well, we're Catholics and we're strong in our faith, but we send our children to the secondary school. And it's quite a tough environment to be a Catholic for a teenager who is, whether openly or quietly active in their faith, quite a hostile environment almost, just because of the nature of being a teenager, I think. I don't think there's anything shocking about that. I'm not sure in the history of the church teenagers have been en masse active in the faith. I don't know how many teenagers were following Jesus around. It's something that perhaps we need to be realistic about. How many teenagers are really gonna be fired up? For me, it's a case of sharing the gospel with them, planting those seeds. Perhaps they're not open in the faith, but we want to let them know that, Yes, the world is shouting really loudly about how they should live and how they can find fulfilment. But Jesus also has something to say as well, and I want to share with the young people just as the Lord did himself. You have heard it said this, but I say this. We try and create videos for them that they can watch in form time. We've called it The Redeemed, and we're twenty one weeks in. So we have a video that chaplains or form tutors who don't really know how to lead prayer, perhaps maybe they're a chemistry teacher or - but they've got form time and they have to lead prayer. So we've created a video that at least once a week they can click on. We decided to really go after some of the themes that perhaps were barriers for teenagers in their faith. We also didn't presume that they knew much. You know, there can be some teenagers who, or Year Sevens, who come into our Catholic secondary schools who haven't been to a Catholic primary, so it's almost a reset again. The very first video we did the first week in September was 'Who are you?' and that's something that we've found is very important, we think, to try and help young people know that they are loved. Their true identity, no matter what the world says, is that they are beloved children of God and that He is pleased with them. And then we've opened up Who is Jesus? Why did Jesus die? and these questions that we can't presume young people know. And then something else that we found really is resonating with this generation is the supernatural. That might be surprising to some listeners, but this generation, who are about 13 at the moment, they are obsessed with the supernatural, but not always in a Christian context. Very normal for young people to maybe have crystals or tarot cards or they're trying to manifest. And actually, we need to share with them, well, we have a better thing for you. If you want protection, turn to Jesus. He's the one who can be your rock and your fortress. If you want healing from the things that are worrying you or causing you anxiety or you feel wounded for whatever reason, things people have said, Jesus is the healer. And this is something that I really think is the way in with young people. If you say to a young person today, Did you know Jesus died for your sins? Look at Him there on the cross, on the crucifix. That doesn't really resonate with young people. Whereas if you say to a young person, You know when you're feeling anxious or worried or feel on the edge of panic, or even if you're really brave, Do you ever sense a darkness sort of around you? Most of them will say, yeah. It's in the region of 60% of young people say that they struggle with their mental health in in 2025. And so we can speak into that, I believe. And Jesus, yes, he healed people physically, but he healed people, emotionally, mentally, restored their identity, helped them know who they truly were. Jesus is the one who can step into your circumstance right now, like he stepped into the life of the woman at the well in John 4. He's gonna meet you where you are in the mundane, in the middle of your day, in the middle of your mess, and yet he's not ashamed of that. He's ready to meet you. And then just to create a space where they can dialogue with the Lord. They can speak to him if they want. They can articulate a prayer, or they can just find stillness. That's something that is important for every single young person, I think. They've grown up in such a busy world. Now teenagers, they'll be on the phone, or they'll be listening to something, or they'll be scrolling, and it's possible for a teenager to go through an entire day without being alone with their thoughts or alone with God. And so that's just a gentle encouragement that we're giving them. Who they are, who Jesus says they are, what he can do for them, how they can grow in relationship with him so that, please God, somewhere along the line, they make a step to say, I'm gonna go back to Mass, or I'm gonna be active in my faith. And perhaps just also to be demanding with a lowercase d, perhaps, to say that this is worthwhile. This isn't just some soft thing. Jesus is radical, and he calls us to live differently. And actually that, I think, it really resonates, particularly with young men or teenage boys. They're looking for role models online with some strong figures, sometimes divisive figures. And yet we can say to them, No, Jesus isn't a soft option. He's the most radical individual that's ever lived, came to change the world and turn it upside down. And that's something that we like to share with them as well. This is a step. It's one that's gonna change your life and give you that true life to the full that you're searching for.

Again, a little bit of challenge for those young people as well as some support and space. I think people will recognize that lack of just time to be, that young people have to contend with today. So thank you for those thoughts, Greg. I think that's going to be really interesting for people to hear about. We haven't spoken about why your project is called Mark 10 Mission. Maybe we can talk about that. And along the way, I often ask people if there's a particular bit of scripture that speaks to them that they keep coming back to, and maybe those things will be linked for you. 

Our mission is called the Mark 10 Mission because we're looking for a cool name. We've played around with a few. Then we thought we're gonna root this in scripture. What scriptures do we have about children? And then in a couple of places in the gospel, Jesus says, Let the little children come to me. Do not stop them, for the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. One of them is in Matthew's gospel, which isn't quite as cool sounding a reference, and the other is Mark 10:14. Mark 10 sounds like some sort of fighter pilot's mission or something, the Mark 10 mission, so we'll take that. It's worked nicely because that's really what we want to do. Let children come to Jesus each week, meet him. Not a case of we're gonna tell you what to think. It's a case of we're gonna lead you to Jesus, and gather together in his name. So I found that John 4, John Chapter 4 recently has been one I've kept coming back to because it's speaking so much to teenagers. I get the chance to go and speak in front of entire year groups. I find when I share that scripture, I ask them to imagine they've come into school that morning and the head of year has said to them, you're eating lunch at a different time to everyone else because you are unclean, you're untouchable, and all your friends, distancing themselves from you and whispering behind your back, and your parents, when you get home, want you to move out because of what you've done. And they're sort of looking at me a bit strange, the teenagers. And I say, well, in the gospel of John chapter four, we meet a woman who's been made to think those things in her context, that she's unworthy, untouchable, ashamed. And then Jesus meets her, right, and speaks into her life and prophesies over her life and restores her identity, says, I'm not ashamed of what you've done or how you're living. I'm ready to tell you who you really are. And then when I try and put that into their context, when I say to them, No, Jesus is ready to step into your everyday, like he did with the woman at the well in the uncomfortableness of the heat of the day, and he's ready to look at you in the eye, see you as the one, perhaps think that he went to Samaria just to meet that woman. When you begin to share that scripture with them, they're listening, and it really speaks to their hearts. That scripture is really one that I'm enjoying using in in secondary schools at the moment because it is so good for our time, where so many people are carrying hurts and wounds and worries and anxieties and questioning who they truly are and where they fit in, especially young people. 

That brings me on a little bit to I'm seeing in you great confidence in sharing the gospel, and yet you were at the beginning telling us that you felt poorly formed as a teenager. I'm interested in where that confidence has now come from. You mentioned that you've done some study, okay, and you're there with the Franciscans. I'm interested in the fact that you have this confidence in yourself rather than letting the Franciscans lead, that somehow you've overcome that being poorly formed in some way and grown into some authority. And I'm wondering how that process has happened. 

Well, a couple of things. I think I'm very much an all-in type of person, Played semi professional cricket for twenty years, and that was really a big part of my life. And I would practice constantly and try to be the best I could be. I think I've brought that a little bit to my ministry as well, where I just want to do a good job and try and be the best I can be. I really pinpoint it to one evening actually in September of 2018. I'd been to the Eucharistic Congress in Liverpool where I'd listened to Bishop Robert Barron speak, and I was so keen. I was first there and I was on the front row listening to him speak, and he gave these two amazing talks, one on the Mass and one on evangelization. And I came back to Bradford for our Friday night prayer group, and I spoke to my friend Father Gabriel. And I said to him, Father, it was amazing, all this stuff that Bishop Barron shared. He talked about the Mass in a way I'd never heard before, and it's all the beauty of the Mass, and everything fits into place. And he was like, right, can you stand up at the front and tell everybody about the Eucharistic Congress? And I remember my heart almost beating out my chest, thinking I can't stand up in front of 30 people and share about my faith and how I'm excited about it. But I did. I remember when I got up there, the nerves and the worry dissipated, and I could speak with a joy. I could even feel the smile on my face, which isn't necessarily normal for me. But I was speaking about the things of my faith, and I felt so alive. And thanks be to God, Father Gabriel and another brother at the time, Brother Joshua, they ran the prayer group, and they're so humble because they could have got up every week and spoken and given a brilliant teaching and but they actually said, Greg, you're speaking. And pretty much every week I'd get there on a Friday about half past six and say to Father Gabriel, Who's speaking this week? You're up again. But I was pretty much thrown up every Friday in front of thirty, forty, 50 people to share the gospel and without any notes. And that was really formative. I had lots of opportunities. When I first started speaking in front of teachers and head teachers at conferences, which I have the blessed opportunity to do, I wasn't super slick. I was learning a lot and trying to find my method. Do I use notes? Do I write it out in full? Do I just go off the PowerPoint? I now get the chance to speak a lot. I've sort of gathered momentum with that. I've gained confidence. And perhaps most importantly, I find that if I just share, I just try and communicate my love of Jesus. Actually, that's the most powerful thing. It's refreshing when I stand up at conferences. I think not unique, but something of a USP is that I just share really openly that Jesus is alive, that I love him, that we can be confident sharing this. It's the context of schools. Whatever happens when I get up and speak in front of people, whether I say the wrong thing or I'm not happy with it afterwards, it's just part of my journey with the Lord really. He's really proud of what I'm trying to do. If I give it my best, he's really proud. If it goes wrong, he's still proud. I can be confident in that, I think. So that's something I really draw upon. Who am I doing it for? And who's alongside me as I speak? 

For people who are in situations where they're trying to share their faith in different ways and where they're building some skills, I think it's really interesting to hear somebody else's journey and how they've managed the process of getting better at it and finding the best way and reassuring themselves instead of focusing on all the negatives, recognising why we're doing this and who it's for. I’m sure lots there will resonate with people in similar situations. I mean all of us are called to share the gospel in the place we find ourselves, so there's something there for everyone. So you've achieved a huge amount already since the time of COVID when your project began, but what are you looking for going forward? How do you think this project is going to grow?

Well, please God, it'll grow. He knows the plan. He might choose for it to not continue, and I'll have to be okay with that. There's so many young people who need to hear the gospel and the authentic gospel. And so I hope it continues to grow. I think particularly with The Redeemed, which is our secondary school project, we just want to get the word out there that these resources are available, freely available. And if it works for your context, be that your school, be that your youth group, your catechist, and you want to help the young people just have some more formation or something for them to discuss because that's part of it as well. On a personal level, for me to just continue to find what are the best ways to meet this generation, and that's ever changing. So fast moving. Think about social media, and social media can be a wonderful tool. It can be a dark place as well, social media, but if used correctly, wow, it's an amazing evangelistic tool. I wanna try and find how can we meet young people at the well that they go to draw from, and how can we make sure our Catholic faith is still transmitted, is still communicated in amongst all the noise of the secular world. And I wanna get better also though at finding the best ways for helping a four or five year old grow. I want to help teachers because there's more and more demand for children to go to Catholic schools. We've got more and more families coming from parts of the world where the Catholic faith is really alive, the continent of Africa, from Eastern Europe. So we're getting Catholic families coming to our schools, but in terms of teachers who are Catholics, maybe that doesn't match up. So I wanna help them. I wanna help the teachers make sure that, when families bring their children to a Catholic school, they're able to be formed well, not just in their intellectual understanding of our faith, but also in the art of prayer. Maybe at a very simple level for them to fall in love with Jesus like I did when I was at primary school. I think that's the greatest gift you can give to any person, but particularly when they're young. To plant that beautiful seed of faith that they may continue with, and it might come to fruition when they're a teenager and they just never leave the faith. But it might be that they drift away, as many young people do, but then they have a reversion and they remember, they remember some of those seeds that were planted when they were young and they go back to the faith. It's a big mission, but I wanna go on this amazing adventure that Jesus has already set me on and to bring as many young people as we can to him. Play my part in building his Kingdom and a catalyst for revival in our church. 

Fantastic. I can hear that your ministry is meeting a need in our Catholic schools and I think that's a wonderful thing. So thank you so much for giving some time today, Greg, to talk and to share about your mission and your own story along the way. There's much there that will be very encouraging for people, especially people who are connected to children in schools and young people in schools. It's a wonderful thing to know that your ministry is trying to reach them where they are and bring them an opportunity to build their relationship with God. So thank you so much for your work and, thank you for making the time to talk to us about it today. 

You're so welcome. Thanks so much, Theresa. That's been wonderful. 

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic This Time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow all kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms. Rate and review to help others find it. And follow our X, Twitter, and Facebook accounts @kindsofcatholic. You can comment on episodes and be part of the dialogue there. You can also text me if you're listening to the podcast on your phone, although I won't be able to reply to those texts. Until the next time.