60: With the Lord, I can be who I was made to be

Episode 60: Speaking from Wales, Joan describes with unflinching honesty how she is learning to understand God as friend and Father. Through prayer and daily journalling, she explains how her relationship with God is deepening and her life is changing. Joan has encouraging words for listeners, 'You are what He's interested in and that's all that matters.'  

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Transcript

You're listening to All Kinds of Catholic with me, Theresa Alessandro. My conversations with different Catholics will give you glimpses into some of the ways we're living our faith today. Pope Francis used the image of a caravan for our travelling together on a sometimes chaotic journey. And Pope Leo, quoting Saint Augustine, reminds us, let us live well and the times will be good. We are the times. I hope you'll feel encouraged and affirmed and maybe challenged now and then. I am too in these conversations. And if you're enjoying them, it helps if you rate and review on the platform where you're listening. Thank you. 

Listeners, thanks so much for joining today. On the podcast today, I've got a really interesting guest, Joan, who's joining us from Wales. So welcome, Joan. 

Thank you. 

We were just talking before, listeners, and I thought for a change, we're gonna start in the middle with Joan and see where the conversation takes us. So somebody sent me a YouTube link, Joan, of you speaking at an event and you spoke really, really well. It was amazing to see you. So tell us a bit about that and where your faith fitted into that. 

Thank you for the question to begin with. That event was my Valedictorian Service last year. I had just finished A-levels. We were having a leaving ceremony, and I was chosen as a valedictorian and as a valedictorian - supposed to have a speech. I was told one week prior to that day, but I've had a lot experience when it comes to speaking in public. It's not a new thing at all. I just planned it as easy and as convenient as I possibly could. Even though I still had a lot of work during the other week, I was able to deliver it. Where my faith came into there, as soon as I heard it, I went to pray. I have an amazing relationship with the Lord. It is like a shaky leaf falling to the ground, but I am trying my absolute best. It's not easy as a young person. But as I told Jesus, I've been chosen as my valedictorian, I would like to make a speech that wows the audience but I also want to put you in the middle of it, I don't want it to be about me or about the school because the school has done an amazing job for me at least - but I just want you to be in the centre. And the fact that this valedictorian speech was even given in a church just made it absolutely better because He was definitely the foundation of the entire thing. He was the CEO, and I was just grateful for that. As the school is a Catholic school to begin with, they do have Catholic ethos. As a result, I wasn't very scared of delivering things that has to do with the Lord. However, I do know different people have different faith, religion. Some people don't even believe in faith, religion, or spirituality in general. Obviously, not one size fits all, but I wanted something that connects with whoever you are regardless of your faith or spirituality, and God actually gave me that. I was glad that my passion was able to be seen. At least you might have seen that when you saw the video because anything about me, I'm all about empowerment, which is what the Lord has done to me. I don't like intimidating people, that's never my core value. I am someone who stands uprightly for empowerment. The Lord helped me to be able to put that into other people. That's how God came in. The fact that I carried him along, I started with him, carried him along, and finished with him, and I'm so grateful.

Well, thank you, Joan. What a wonderful testimony to your faith being absolutely at the centre of your life. Would you be happy for me to put the link to your valedictorian YouTube video in the episode notes? 

That's fine. Yeah.

Okay. So I'll do that. I love that shaking leaf falling to the ground image. You mentioned that public speaking is something that you had experience of. I know that you do youth work in the diocese, in youth ministry. Is that what you're referring to? Has that given you some confidence in speaking to groups of people? 

That has definitely but that's also not my first rodeo. I started public speaking way back when I was five years old in Nigeria.

Okay. So you're not camera shy? 

Not at all. No. 

Great. Well, that's a great skill. It's great to have someone who can share their faith in a public way and, like you say, not feel scared to do that and want to try and reach people where they're at. That's a wonderful skill in in the modern world too. So tell us a bit about the youth work then in the diocese. Tell us a bit about how you're sharing your faith with other young people.

I came to the UK in 2022. Growing up a Catholic - I was born a Catholic, went to Catholic high school. And by the time I came to the UK, it was higher institution, so A-level. When I came originally, I saw this Catholic church locally where I was living. The congregation was mostly the elderly rather than my age mates. As a result, I didn't know anything that much about the diocese. And then September of that year 2022, I got admitted into St. David's A-level college. When I got there, that was when I became full swing into the diocese. I found out they had a chapel. I found out they had an entire community. I was, Yes. Sign me up. I was so happy for it. I was happy to find out about that. A lot of people my age that time. There was one mentor I got introduced into because he's been an amazing figure in my life, especially when I met him at that time. Well, he himself didn't grow up Catholic. He didn't even grow Christian, which was amazing to begin with. When I saw him, I thought he was Catholic his entire life. That just shows you how passionate people are about these things. He introduced me full swing into the diocese. And I realized when I came to the UK, the way we show our faith back at home is very different from the way we show it here. Some people call it culture shock but it wasn't really culture shock it was me just seeing different perspectives and realising that the faith is celebrated in different ways across the world. It was an interesting thing to see and I've learned a lot. A lot of things I didn't learn there, I learned here. A lot of things I learned over there, I am unlearning here. A lot of things I already learned there, I'm relearning here. When I came into the Catholic Archdiocese, I was just part of the community. It was - obviously, when you start, you don't just climb up. You start small, and then a trajectory builds slowly. All of a sudden, last year, October, I think there were 12 members. We were called to St Non’s in Saint David, which is the smallest town in Wales. All of us, we made a new, Disciples Making Disciples, which is the foundation of the youth ministry to empower the young people to know Christ, to have that deep rooted faith in him, unshakable faith. I'm not saying that there's not going to be temptations and nothing bad will happen, but just letting them know that Christianity is the best thing that can happen to you. Jesus is the best thing that can happen to you. And the archbishop also came to visit us. Since then, we had our first pilot event, which was an advent retreat. It went absolutely amazing. Flame came up this year and we have so much more so many more events to go.

Diligent listeners will know that you're not the first guest who comes from a Nigerian heritage where your faith has been very strong, at home in Nigeria. And you've had to make some adjustments coming here and things. It's great to hear how well you speak of your faith, how naturally you speak of your faith. It's a beautiful thing. So I'd like to just ask a bit about Flame. Were you at the Flame event then? Because listeners might be interested to hear a bit about what that is and, and what it was like being there. I know I was reading in the Catholic press something like 10,000 young Catholic people were at the Flame event. So tell us a bit about what it was like for you. 

The Flame itself, this is not the first time going forward. The last time I went for it was 2023. Flame is a Catholic concert, the biggest Catholic concert in the UK. When I say he UK, I'm talking about Scotland as well. It's not just England and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, but it's the biggest Catholic concert in the UK. And you get so many guest speakers, you get so many different even gospel musicians. Adenike was there and Guvna B. But all these gospel musicians that are trying to bring the young to Jesus, all of them were there. It was just amazing to see the amount of young children and people that were there. It's all about youth, but the age range in the middle was what you see the most. I'm talking from age 15 all the way to 25 ish. The concert itself, the staging place, then a lot of chairs, and all the chairs were filled up. There was no empty seats. That's how many young people were there. Yes. 10,000 of them were there. We're just here for one shared purpose, Jesus. The raising of voices to praise, the song we sang, even praying, the guest speakers that spoke about their faith that also impacted ours as well. It was amazing. The Flame happens every two years. The next one in 2027. The topic of this year was Unstoppable. That definitely like I told you, having an unshakable faith in the Lord is also amazing to begin with. But talking about Unstoppable, that was the same empowerment that I've been talking about because how else are you gonna empower the young people if you don't tell them that they're unstoppable? Like I said, my faith in the Lord at the moment is a shaky leaf falling to the ground, but I'm still unstoppable because I'm still gonna get to that ground, and the Lord is still gonna pick me up regardless whatever I go through. It's a Catholic faith. I know some people are quite, I don't know, intimidated with the Catholic faith and they think we're not Christians and stuff. You still have to remain unstoppable because the Lord is fighting for you. He's literally behind you. If you know what you believe in, stick to what you believe in, and the Lord will help you. He'll always back you up. So, yeah, that's what Flame's about.

Fantastic, Joan. When I've been at a really big event like that with Catholic people, there's something wonderful about feeling this huge community that you're part of, where sometimes you can feel a little bit alone in other kind of settings in your daily life, but actually to just be aware that there are lots and lots and lots of people, thousands of young people, who are wanting to take their faith seriously as you are. It is a very, nourishing thing to be part of. I love the theme unstoppable. That's great. Someone did a good job coming up with that. I guess the Holy Spirit helped them. Those are all the good things and all the things that give you this feeling of empowerment, but I wonder whether along the way there must be some little wobbles somewhere in your shaking leaf? What are the kind of things that make you feel a bit less confident, that challenge you a little bit in your faith? 

That's a very good question, very personal as well, but I've realised that shame is from the devil, or not from the Lord, so there's nothing to be afraid of. There are a lot of things. I'm a human being, obviously. There are a lot of things that really challenge me. Growing up from Nigeria, we were taught very different things from what I saw here. I've mentioned that before. When I grew up in Nigeria, I didn't learn that God was my friend. I didn't learn he was Father. I didn't learn he was brother. Some people say brother, husband, father, lover. I never learned any of those. I just learned the Lord is the Lord. I learned he is God. He's majestic in all his ways. He's a supreme being. He needs the ultimate reverence, the utmost respect, and that's what I grew up learning. I learned prayer as a responsibility. I learned reading my bible as a responsibility. You have to do them. You don't have a choice. If you asked me -the Bible says in the book of first Peter, where he says you should be ready to defend your faith - if you had asked me at that time to explain why I'm doing all the things I was doing, I wouldn't give you a definite answer. I wouldn't even give you an answer at all. I'll just tell you, Believe, because that's what - that's all I was taught. I knew the Lord in my head and not in my heart. But as I came to the UK, I started to see a lot of things in the way how calm the Reverend Father spoke to us. It was just different. I started to learn the Lord is, he's not my enemy. I'm not trying to impress Him. I can actually be vulnerable. It got so bad when I was in Nigeria that I literally was coping, but if I tell you the story, obviously, you would think that is not coping. That's why I grew up with it as natural, so I didn't think anything was wrong with it. I would never ask the Lord for deep personal things. I would only ask him for the things that should be asked for. I would not want him to come into my personal space. I just wanted him to be the supreme being that I served. I really, really believed in human works. That's what I really believed in as Catholic back then. I really believed in human works. I have to put in the work, then I come to him, and then he helps me. I knew about salvation, of course, but I didn't know it in a deeper level to understand that I'm not earning the faith. I'm not earning salvation. I am not earning anything. The Lord has given it to me, free will on a cross. There's nothing for me to work for. But as I came to this country, I started unlearning that. Like I said, I'm learning, relearning, and unlearning many things in this country, and I'm grateful for that, to be honest. I never used to get vulnerable to the Lord. Whenever I cry in prayer, it wasn't because I was particularly sad. It was just because I wanted to pretend like I encounter the Holy Spirit. The Lord is removing so many things that I grew up learning, and he's letting me know that it's okay. You didn't earn this. You were never gonna earn it. There's nothing you're gonna do. No matter how righteous you are, I'm the Righteousness itself. I can be vulnerable in front of the Lord. I'm not trying to impress Him, He wants to see me at my worst. You know the places where you expect to see Him, well, for instance, Flame, where everyone is happy and jumpy? You won't really see the Lord there if you really want to encounter him. You might. The thing about the Lord is, where you would see Him is in the deep alone places in your room. For instance, where you're absolutely gutted when the day doesn't feel like it's your day. There's a prayer that I so associate with, Psalm 118. It says, This is the day the Lord has made. I'll rejoice in it. I'll be glad. When I pray this prayer, there's nothing to rejoice in the day. But when I do that, I realise that it's not about me really. It's about the Lord. And I’m still learning because this is something that was deeply embedded in my heart. So what makes my faith feel shaky sometimes is when I get those moments of vulnerability, when I get those moments where everything feels like the entire world is against me, I'm against myself as well. In my valedictorian speech, there were two phrases that I used. It is the lonely days or the rainy days that give us love for the sun. It's the lows in life that help us cherish the highs. There's a song that came out on social media that time: Lord, I thank you for sunshine. I thank you for rain. I thank you for joy. I thank you for pain. Even the bible says it. Paul said it. He said, Give thanks to the Lord in everything that you do for this is the will of God for you in your life. I'm learning that when I experience pain in my life, when I experience sorrow, when I feel vulnerable, life is cruel and life is wicked, but it's okay to still give thanks to the Lord. He's not against me. He never was against me, and he never will be against me. If the Lord is for you, then nothing, no forces of the evil darkness, not in the higher places, not on earth, not under the earth, is gonna attack you. It's okay to share with him my pain, not because he's going to mock me because that's what I thought would happen. Because I thought if I bring it to the supreme being, this majesty God, if I bring my problems to him he would insult me. Like I said I never thought of him as Father, I never thought of him as friend. I know a lot of us have heard that the Lord loves us unconditionally. The reason why I felt the way I feel, I don't feel the Lord as my friend. It feels hard getting vulnerable with him. It's because I've never been loved unconditionally. I have parents here. I have friends. I have siblings. I have as you can imagine, if you're confident like this, you have a broad network. I have people I interact with, but I've never experienced that unconditional love. It's just been me getting what I want. And even with my parents, even with my friends, even with my siblings, even with this strong network of mine, you do something and you ask and they help you. You do what you're supposed to do, basically. But with the Lord, I can be who I am. I can be who I was made to be. Best quote I've ever heard in my life, and it's literally the quote I live by, ‘Be who you were made to be, and you will set the world on fire.’ I don't need to pretend or put on a mask in front of Him. I don't need to say, Oh, I just got an A. Meanwhile, in my heart, I have five subjects. Four of them, I got an A. One, I got an F. And it's absolutely embarrassing. With the Lord, that I need to tell, I got an F - Let's talk about it. Slowly, I'm learning what exactly unconditional love is.It's a whole piece of cake, and I can't even tell you I've gotten a slice out. I'm literally on the tiniest, tiniest bit. Choosing the Lord every day as much as he chooses us.

 Joan, I think listeners will appreciate you speaking so honestly about this, and I think it will certainly resonate with listeners. This struggle that I think we all have somehow to really believe that we are deeply loved by the Lord. I think somehow for all of us, we have to work at that. It doesn't actually come naturally. So it's lovely to hear you speak about that and to hear your efforts to understand that fully and to be vulnerable, as you say before the Lord. That's great. And I think that will really help listeners. And this podcast is all about encouraging us, so that's fantastic. You've given us a bit of insight there into your prayer life actually. And I was gonna ask about that, and maybe I will, just as we work towards the end of the conversation. Can you share with us a little bit about the kind of prayers that you find helpful or practices that you find helpful? What are the things you do regularly that support your faith? 

I recently started journalling, definitely the Holy Spirit, but I just got this new book. I didn't know what to do with it. I just started - I just really started journalling. There you can be as honest. This is where this journal challenges my vulnerability to the Lord because I have a structure of the journal. I start with I greet the Lord, Hello Lord. I learn different languages so sometimes I can greet him in a different language. The next thing is the weather forecast of the day, not in terms of really what the weather forecast is, but the weather forecast of my mind. Sometimes it's sunny. Sometimes it's cloudy. Last night, it was a clear night because I didn't have anything on my mind. The weather forecast of the day, we talk about that. And then I go into my highlight and my low light.

 The highlight helps me to keep that belief that I had that I only tell the Lord the good things. So I'm very good at that. Things that made me smile, things that made me happy. Yesterday, I went to work. We had a lot of customers, so I was really busy. That was my highlight. That made me happy. Then the low light, this is where I calm down, take a deep breath because it's what made me deeply sorrowful, what disturbed my mind, what made me angry, what vexed me. After my low light, I write about what I'm grateful for that day. Yesterday, I was grateful for my job. The day before yesterday, I was grateful for my hair. I don't even know why. But I take it to the Lord, and you realise just how deeply interested He is in you. This journalling has just been part of me. I've introduced my father to it. He loves it, and I'm introducing a lot of people to it. Journal, like, you know, the Lord is gonna read it. I just feel like when I'm asleep, the Lord is reading this book. He's laughing, you know, shedding a tear or something or he's blessing me. That's the first one. The second one that keeps my faith going is my physical bible. The physical bible just makes you get lost in it, and you can write on it as well. I've heard some people say that they don't really like writing in their Bible or making notes, but I promise you the Lord is not gonna strike you with thunder if you write in your book. Highlight those important things, underlining those important messages and statements. My bible probably looks like a journal, but the thing is there's some places that are overly highlighted, overly spoken about, overly underlined, and then there are some places that I've never even opened before. So this bible is gonna be with me my whole life.  And then prayer. Prayer is absolutely important. The more you pray, the more you're able to get that ground with the Lord, the more you're able to say everything you want to say. But try to get in a prayer as a conversation with the Lord. Inviting Him into every single moment of your day changed my life. Before, I had set times for praying to the Lord. When I wake up in the morning, morning devotion, no problem. I don't pray in the afternoon. I don't pray in the afternoon because there's no reason to pray in the afternoon. And then in the evening, just before you go to bed because that's the normal thing. When I was in high school, because my high school was a Catholic school, when we wake up in the morning, we pray. We literally have Mass. I was the pianist. You go, you pray, you see, you play the piano for Mass. 12PM again, we have the Angelus. We have the evening. We have rosary, parade around the entire school compound. 1,000 or something of us. Hail Mary, full of grace. Hail Mary, full of grace. Now when I'm at work, it can be the most random, unexpected time, but you just go and you pray. And I say, Lord, I thank you so much for today. He is so deeply interested in you much more than you imagine. When you do all these things collaboratively together, you would realise that you are changing so much. There was a time I took almost a week from journalling. I was having a really terrible week, and I just didn't think. I was sliding back to who I was, you know, not seeing the Lord as my friend, but seeing Him as just God. Not telling Him anything because I didn't I just didn't feel like He needed to know. I didn't feel it was appropriate enough for Him to know. When I came back after to continue journalling, I didn’t realise how much did journalling change me until I stopped. I was very low. I didn't want to talk to anyone. If you talk to me, I'm not gonna talk to you back. I was not smiling at anyone. I was not empowering anyone. I was intimidating people.

 I was intimidating myself. I wasn't comfortable with myself. I didn't feel like eating. Everything was just annoying just because I stopped journalling, just because I stopped reading my bible, just because I literally stopped praying. I stopped treating prayer as a conversation. I started treating it as a responsibility. And another thing I've learned is how intentional the Lord is. If you don't wanna talk to him, he makes the way for you to talk to him. He really does. Now I've learned that sometimes when I'm in the presence of the Lord, I don't even need to speak. My presence there is enough. Before, I always thought, Yes. If I speak, I fill up the silence and I do what I need to do and He loves me more. Hold your ear when I say this, There is nothing that you will do or not do or undo that will increase or decrease the Lord's love for you. When I say increase, it's already at his max so there's nothing you're gonna do to make it better or make it worse. You are what He's interested in and that's all that matters. 

That's great, Joan. Thank you. You've given us a real flavour there of the things that nourish your faith and the practices that you make sure you spend time on. That's really important. I know you're studying at the moment, so you're real busy, but it's been wonderful to talk to you today. You've given a real burst of energy and enthusiasm into the podcast. Thank you for that. And also a lot of depth to your reflections about where you're at in your faith and what really helps you. And I think there's lots there that will help people listening too, and that will encourage people listening and affirm the efforts we're trying to make in our faith. That's really great to hear that from you. So thank you so much for spending some time with us. 

No problem. Thank you.

Thanks so much for joining me on All Kinds of Catholic this time. I hope today's conversation has resonated with you. A new episode is released each Wednesday. Follow All Kinds of Catholic on the usual podcast platforms. Rate and review to help others find it. And follow our X, Twitter, and Facebook accounts @kindsofCatholic. You can comment on episodes and be part of the dialogue there. You can also text me if you're listening to the podcast on your phone, although I won't be able to reply to those texts. Until the next time.